804 replies to this topic

[Xyph3r]

Thomas Oreland, on 27 April 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Cruiser ..... who the hell is Cruiser? Is that the dishwasher at the greasy spoon?

a Cruiser is a Battleship.. and as we all now, only weaklings and WoBbies call in Orbital bombardments on the Mech Battlefield

[Korbyn McColl]

GrimFist, on 26 April 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

What a healthy thread. We even managed to get Bryan thinking about something.

My only concern is names being thrown about that start messing with history of BT.

Be who you want. Considering the mechanics it will be intresting to see how many people they let in a unit. If you have 30-40 hardcore gamers, being in the same 12 man rotation for unit games is going to be tough.

First off, I agree completely that I'm glad this thread has taken a positive, constructive direction since Bryan's post.

I don't think 12 man drops will hurt large units. If we get all 60+ members on at the same time, we'll just queue up 5 drop groups.

wwiiogre, on 26 April 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

I just hope they don't install an arbitrary cap on total members of a unit. Seems silly, let us play with who we want to play with. Seems like a pretty simple concept. Well we will know eventually, and besides that may change after beta or even later. So just hoping for an amazing game I can grow old with.

Chris

This is my only real concern. If the devs come along and say a Company or a Battalion is the maximum size a unit can be, that will hamper larger units. We'll survive, but we'd have to restructure into at least two separate Battalions. I don't really see why they would do that, though. There's simply no good reason to force units to be that small. Limiting it to Regiments might be feasible, but I can't see them limiting units to less than 120 or so members.

Edited by Devil Man, 27 April 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[Vodkavaiator]

A very interesting thread and quite some nice discussion, apart from the occasional insult or flaming.

Personally, I would prefer to just be an unknown clan/merc/house/etc unit as opposed to one that actually has lore, merely so that I or my comrades could forge their own paths.

That being said I can understand why people who have been involved with MechWarrior for a long period of time might have a specific attachment to an already established unit.

Still it would be nice to not have 17 Clan Wolfs with 17 Khans and so forth, as it does sort of ruin immersion.

I also think that units should be allowed to be as big or small as they wish, the limited number of players in a single battle will prevent any horde tactics.

Edited by Vodkavaiator, 27 April 2012 - 05:29 AM.

[Ghogiel]

There is going to be a difference between some ones claimed rank in a faction and their actual rank in said faction. Which will have no bearing on units on the ground. lance captians will still be captains, even if they are scrubs in the faction standings. Actual faction standing will super cede any claimed rank erryday in terms of MWO, because one actually matters and has bonuses, the other is extracurricular roleplay... that may not bare out in any dimension in game.

So.... who cares?

[Mason Grimm]

Wait for Pauls post on this matter.

Take me for instance; I joined the Gray Death Legion (did I spell it american enough this time?). Sure they won't be the Gray Death Legion in game but they could be the Grey Death Legion or the GrayDeathLegion or something along those lines. If they want to play that way then fine.

While the GDL is a great unit in canon and lore, I joined cause of the players; hanging out with them, editing their threads, banning them sometimes just for giggles, you know, the good times! I didn't join cause I wanna be ilKhan Greyson Death Leo Showers Wolf Keresneky-Carlysle Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

If that offends people? The complaint line forms to the left; feel free to bring your metal.

[Felbombling]

Mason Grimm, on 27 April 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Wait for Pauls post on this matter.

Take me for instance; I joined the Gray Death Legion (did I spell it american enough this time?). Sure they won't be the Gray Death Legion in game but they could be the Grey Death Legion or the GrayDeathLegion or something along those lines. If they want to play that way then fine.

While the GDL is a great unit in canon and lore, I joined cause of the players; hanging out with them, editing their threads, banning them sometimes just for giggles, you know, the good times! I didn't join cause I wanna be ilKhan Greyson Death Leo Showers Wolf Keresneky-Carlysle Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

If that offends people? The complaint line forms to the left; feel free to bring your metal.

That is all well and good, Mason, but I think the major concern I have here would be... who else would want to be in the Gray Death Legion? Was it hard to get into the Legion? Was there a test or a form to fill out? Is it exclusive to a group of people and/or a popularity contest? What if Joe Blowhard, the most annoying Gray Death Legion fanboy on the planet, wants into your group... do you accept him or turn him away? If you turn him away, what gave you the right to be part of the Grey Death Legion in the first place, thus being able to exclude Mr. Blowhard?

Not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the obvious.

[wwiiogre]

Mr Blowhard could form his own part of the Gray Death Legion, just like we formed our own part of the Northwind Highlanders, we are not THE Northwind Highlanders, just a part of them. Just like Chuckie formed the Knights Who Say Ni a part of the Northwind Highlanders and we applaud and welcome him as another part of the whole. We do not claim ownership of the Highlanders, just that we have an affinity to the Group and will try to emulate them. We welcome any and all to make their own parts of the Highlanders as well. Including the Liao version that is already made and any others.

Chris

[Korbyn McColl]

There are definitely two sides to this debate, and both sides have very strong and valid points.

In an ideal world, the devs would make the canonical merc units work the same way the Houses will work, with merc units being able to "join" the canon unit of their choice, wear its colors and carry its banner. But I imagine that would add another year to development time.

So we're just gonna have to wait and see what the devs decide to do on this matter. And those of us keen on getting an answer are apt to be keeping this thread alive in the meantime. =)

[Dirk Le Daring]

Bryan Ekman, on 25 April 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Sorry for the delay on my write up. Hoping to get it done today. Lots on the go in the office today.

Well, I wanna hear what Bryan says.

I am very interseted in this.

[Tyr Gunn]

StaggerCheck, on 27 April 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

That is all well and good, Mason, but I think the major concern I have here would be... who else would want to be in the Gray Death Legion? Was it hard to get into the Legion? Was there a test or a form to fill out? Is it exclusive to a group of people and/or a popularity contest? What if Joe Blowhard, the most annoying Gray Death Legion fanboy on the planet, wants into your group... do you accept him or turn him away? If you turn him away, what gave you the right to be part of the Grey Death Legion in the first place, thus being able to exclude Mr. Blowhard?

Not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the obvious.

It's a private club type thing. We are not the Northwind Highlanders, but we are a representation of them. As such, we have the right, as any private club, to be as exclusive or inclusive as we wish. I welcome rival, or rather hopefully, friendly sister groups. In fact, I would encourage it.

If PGI locks out cannon groups, I would much prefer them to make merc groups (or any groups) an all-access thing. A system where anyone with the inclination can join any merc group they like. Then, from within that faction, if they feel they would like to self-organize into their own sub-groups in an "offline" or "on paper" capacity, that could be at their own discretion.

For instance, if they made the Northwind Highlanders a joinable faction in-game for all comers, I would be ok with that. Because there is no reason I can't form a sub-group of individuals I intend to run with and/or associate with.

Edit: It seems I've virtually echoed my fellow Highlanders here. As you can see, we've organized into a group of like-minded individuals.

[Mad Mage]

Guess I will put my 2 cents in...

I personaly think that the major players/units should be off limits. However that Doesn't mean that people cannot be a part of those units. As long as the subunit is not a big name unit (think Black Widow Company).

My plan is to find a either create or join a new unit that hopfully can become either as famous or infamous as some of the groups that many of us love. After all who wants to try to live off of someone elses fame when they can create their own?

[Listless Nomad]

If I might put forward an argument in favor of unit name exclusivity (bear with me here). The points Grimm, ogre, and devilman have put forward are valid, and make a lot of sense. My one concern with such a free system is reputation. Granted, this is a rather esoteric worry, as we know very little about contracts (computer based at this time, but who knows in the future), or how merc corps will work. That doesn't mean that a unit's reputation within a game means little or nothing.

One problem I can see is recruitment. If there is the Grey Death Legion, the Gray Death Legion, the GrayDeathLegion, and the GreyDeathLegion all running around in the game world, it may be very easy for one group of yahoos to bring everyone down. As the game progresses, and corps want to expand, or attract new recruits, word of mouth might become an important faction to a unit's reputation, and if there are rumors or lone wolves going around saying that the GrayDeathLegion, are a bunch of jerks - it could impact the Grey Death Legion's recruiting. Already there is a website launched for Lone Wolves to go and talk about merc corps, and generally rate the best employers. I'd hate to see a good unit's name sullied by a few bad apples.

Limiting unit names to Battalions, or Companies would pose problems for the reasons outlined above, which isn't great - but I think it is the best solution. I don't want to see anyone excluded from their favorite canon unit because they signed up after the game was released and that unit was no longer recruiting - that's no fun for anyone. I just don't think minor name variations should be allowed either, for the aforementioned reputation issues.

It's definitely a sticky situation, and I'm not trying to throw a wrench into anything - I just figured I'd voice a potential issue that I thought of when reading the thread. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Edited by Listless Nomad, 27 April 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Mason Grimm, on 27 April 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Wait for Pauls post on this matter.

Take me for instance; I joined the Gray Death Legion (did I spell it american enough this time?). Sure they won't be the Gray Death Legion in game but they could be the Grey Death Legion or the GrayDeathLegion or something along those lines. If they want to play that way then fine.

How about the Pink Death Legion (Nickname "The Einhorns")?

[Salesninja]

Ghogiel, on 27 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

There is going to be a difference between some ones claimed rank in a faction and their actual rank in said faction. Which will have no bearing on units on the ground. lance captians will still be captains, even if they are scrubs in the faction standings. Actual faction standing will super cede any claimed rank erryday in terms of MWO, because one actually matters and has bonuses, the other is extracurricular roleplay... that may not bare out in any dimension in game.

So.... who cares?

I don't understand posts like this. Who cares? I do. We do. There are obviously a lot of people who DO in fact care. The fact that we are all posting and voicing our thoughts and opinions is a pretty significant indicator that people care. This is mechwarrior! One of the greatest IP's ever created. I don't think it's a crime to have a favorite faction or unit you want to play under. There are so many games out there where people don't care at all about what team they play for...call of duty anyone? No thanks. I'll contine to sit here and pray for the day this game is playable for us. And if it's half as good as I think it will be. I will keep caring about it long after the lemmings have moved onto the next flavor of the month.

[Thomas de Ville]

Torrix, on 23 April 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

I just read the thread where the OP is calling himself the Khan of Smoke Jaguar and wanted to "call out" the Khan of Wolf for "a" Kerensky bloodname. Thanks to a couple of extremely knowledgeable posters (they had me scrambling for both my source books and novels) that non-idea was safely shot down.

What I want to know (the above mentioned thread being the catalyst for me to post) is how are people supposedly "laying claim" to clans and even other IS houses and units? I've not seen anything official about this actually being allowed yet, especially where the clans are concerned because thus far the only pseudo-confirmation we've yet received that they will even be in the game is a "wink" in the FAQ.

I'm quite sure I can throw out old stats from past leagues which are every bit as legit as anyone elses (Ice Hellion Star Commander in Grand Council in MW2 and MW2 Mercs, saKhan and then Khan (and co-founder) of Wolf Clan in original NBT in MW2 Mercs era, Lieutenant in Wolf's Dragoons in a league whose name I can't even remember, and XO of Excalibur RCT (merc unit) ten years later in the NBT again in MW4 Mercs), A lot of us have a lot of experience "back in the day" of the Mechwarrior heyday in the mid to late 90s, as well as table top and reading every source book and novel etc, and that is all a very good thing. Heck, I was still in the infantry in Germany when I first played Crescent Hawks Inception and the original Mechwarrior (1) in 1989.

So just how will Piranha be handling this?

At any rate, I'm thinking there will be far too many of us to be able to just "lay claim" to any given unit. It will be a serious and contentious thing that I'm hoping Piranha will come up with as fair a way as possible for this to happen.

(That's not even beginning to cover the time when/if the Clans are actually announced and 75% of IS units get abandoned in the mad rush to claim clans)

Sure the Clans have the better mechs and weapons , but a underdog has more fun .

[Mason Grimm]

Listless Nomad, on 27 April 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

If I might put forward an argument in favor of unit name exclusivity (bear with me here). The points Grimm, ogre, and devilman have put forward are valid, and make a lot of sense. My one concern with such a free system is reputation. Granted, this is a rather esoteric worry, as we know very little about contracts (computer based at this time, but who knows in the future), or how merc corps will work. That doesn't mean that a unit's reputation within a game means little or nothing.

One problem I can see is recruitment. If there is the Grey Death Legion, the Gray Death Legion, the GrayDeathLegion, and the GreyDeathLegion all running around in the game world, it may be very easy for one group of yahoos to bring everyone down. As the game progresses, and corps want to expand, or attract new recruits, word of mouth might become an important faction to a unit's reputation, and if there are rumors or lone wolves going around saying that the GrayDeathLegion, are a bunch of jerks - it could impact the Grey Death Legion's recruiting. Already there is a website launched for Lone Wolves to go and talk about merc corps, and generally rate the best employers, I'd hate to see a good unit's name sullied by a few bad apples.

Limiting unit names to Battalions, or Companies would pose problems for the reasons outlined above, which isn't great - but I think it is the best solution. I don't want to see anyone excluded from their favorite canon unit because they signed up after the game was released and that unit was no longer recruiting - that's no fun for anyone. I just don't think minor name variations should be allowed either, for the aforementioned reputation issues.

It's definitely a stick situation, and I'm not trying to throw a wrench into anything - I just figured I'd voice a potential issue that I thought of when reading the thread. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

You make some very valid points yourself Listless! I suppose I hadn't taken reputation dynamics in to consideration and that is something that will certainly come in to play in the future of MWO and units etc. Really? If I had the time and the energy and about 65.00 spare I would have started the Grimm Reaper Company as I had originally intended to but with GrimmReapers.com being taken by some WoW guild (and the owner just renewed it too as of the 11th of this month) I kinda thought "yeah, maybe that is a sign". Then when I started hanging out with the GDL Fanboi I was like "Cool place, friendly people, female mechwarriors (who are married but I can still flirt with since their husbands play too)" I figured "What the hell, it'll keep me out of trouble and free up LOADS of time. Plus the lore is rich and the name means something".

I do see what you mean about the Grey Death Legion, Gray Death Legion, GreyDeathLegion and GrayDeathLegion etc. It will be very interesting to see what the Dev take on this is. I will be sitting by my comptuer as soon as I get home from work to see!

[Jaroth Corbett]

wwiiogre, on 27 April 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Mr Blowhard could form his own part of the Gray Death Legion, just like we formed our own part of the Northwind Highlanders, we are not THE Northwind Highlanders, just a part of them. Just like Chuckie formed the Knights Who Say Ni a part of the Northwind Highlanders and we applaud and welcome him as another part of the whole. We do not claim ownership of the Highlanders, just that we have an affinity to the Group and will try to emulate them. We welcome any and all to make their own parts of the Highlanders as well. Including the Liao version that is already made and any others.

Chris

Which leads me back to the point I made for us Clansmen that you IS people can use as well. Be a sub-unit. Not the whole Clan/Unit.

[Dihm]

You could have flirted with me Mason. My wife wouldn't have minded.

From what you said, it sounds like Garth is supposed to have his post done this evening. Is that the word you've heard Grimey, or a desirement?

Edited by Dihm, 27 April 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[Tyr Gunn]

Dihm, on 27 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

You could have flirted with me Mason. My wife wouldn't have minded.

From what you said, it sounds like Garth is supposed to have his post done this evening. Is that the word you've heard Grimey, or a desirement?

Wait, who exactly is going to be clarifying things? Bryan, Paul or Garth? I've seen all three names now, but only Bryan ever said he would elucidate.

[Dihm]

Woops, I meant Bryan, my bad dawg.