24 replies to this topic

[Qarnage]

From 2 to 1.7 damage/missile, it should take about 15% more time to kill a target, not "several more minutes". Long Range Missiles are not an effective counter to fast, small, light mechs, and should not be.

[MaxFool]

Problem is not damage drop, problem is missiles not even hitting the target as well as before.

[Jor Jurgenson]

Again, we are dealing with several "shoulds" when we should be focusing on the "is".

As a dedicated LRM 15 hybrid player, I use them frequently. I use a Cat or a Hunchback (non lrm brawler) as my primary mechs of choice.

With regard to the Opness or not, they were overpowered for exactly two days. However, as many have noted, they nerfed not only the damage, but, every aspect of the system. They increased the spread, lowered the damage, tracking speed, flight and impact trajectory. I think that nearly everyone that played during that time (two days) would agree that the LRMs were far too effective in that time span. I also think that those that have played in the interim period post nerf can agree that they simply went too far.

On one hand, I am certainly glad that they tried to fix a system quickly to prevent a game breaking imbalance, but, I am not thrilled that they did it so heavy handedly. If they had moved to rectify the overnerf with an additional hotfix after measuring metrics, then I would not be annoyed in the least. However, we are now on the 14th with no announcements or hints (that I have seen or heard of) that will return some of the usefulness of the LRMs. Perhaps they will address it in the patch on the 20th. We shall see.

Currently, the main problems with the LRM (though there are smaller secondary issues), come down to the tracking speed and the overall damage. As many scouts and commanders have commented, lights (if they are moving at all) have little to fear from LRMs. The issue in that case is not so much damage so much as they missles simply don't hit them. Scouts circle fighting in the broad open should get hammered by LRMs if they make a tactical mistake of that magnitude. However, even with a higher elevation, line of sight and compatable vectors, at least half of the missles will smash into the ground. They are still effective on mediums and above, but, they are largely useless against the lights. If you're willing to expend the ammo to seriously damage them, then do so, but, it tends to be a bad investment of firepower. It is a much better tactic to use it on the mediums and above where they will not slam worthlessly into the dirt.

As to the second issue, I don't simply proposed increasing the damage back to 2.0. It would make lrm 5s and 10s more effective generally, but, the better solution (without being game breaking) would be just to allow our spread to tighten up again. An increased tracking speed (more hits) with a better impact radius (smaller spread) would make the salvos more effective without becoming the "Wrath of an Angry God" as they were during the November 6-8th period. If the overal damage of each missle were themselves to be increased, I would be very retiscent to go over 1.8 per missle.

I've noticed an interesting thing while reading these boards, though I have seen it in other forums/places as well. Increasingly I see this idea of a "support" weapon thrown around, and I believe I know the source of confusion. You see, in games, online, board and single player, developers and game makers tend to label weapon systems. They label this as direct fire, this as indirect fire, this as damage over time, burst damage, etc. . While that's fine for classification in fictional realities and games, the reality of warfare is very different.

I have noticed that many have tried, in one form or another, to express that LRMs work as suppression (not support) weapons in the field, and that indirect fire weapons are always these "support" type of weapons. There are two issues here. First and foremost, what kind and why do weapons create suppression of units? The first and most obvious answer is that if you don't keep your head down, you simply die. In the case of a well known direct fire weapon system, let's look at a .50 cal machine gun team. That weapon causes suppression for one reason. It's not the inordinate rate of fire or the "scariness" of the gun, it is the damage. If you are caught by a .50 cal machine gun salvo, you will not die as much as you will will kind of 'explode' (best descriptive term I've heard yet) and be rendered down into a fine pink mist that will cover your companions. Your remains will fit in a paper bag, unless it cuts you in half, which also happens. The suppression, in that case, is caused by not wanting to be turned into an exploding ball of pink mist. In the case of indirect weapons that cause suppression, let's bring up artillery (which some people seem to think LRMs are more closely related than mobile guided missle systems -next discussion). Artillery causes suppression for the same reason: people don't like exploding. They cause suppression if a smart opponent keeps their head down, on the flipside, many units have been blown to bits by standing out in the open and eating a mortar/launcher/guided missle. When people think of artillery, they tend to think more of WWI and not so much the Civil War, Boer War, or even artillery in the time of the Napoleonic Wars (much less modern applications).

The second issue comes down to role warfare. I think that because of the uniqueness of a fast moving mechanized guided missle launcher, some people have a hard time wrapping their head around whether an LRM toting mech is artillery, indirect fire, or what? Part of the problem is the paradigm. All mechs are essentially tanks of one form or another. Their weapon systems give them a great deal more versatility (as with real tanks in modern armies), but, at the end of the day they're still tanks. They should have some degree of direct damage (whether primary or secondary), mobility (Woot! Jumpjets!), and heavy armor (to one degree or another). As more equipment comes out (ECM, BAP, MASC) and current equipment expands (Command Console, Drone Modules, Adv Targeting modules), we're going to see a lot more combinations both of the hybrid and specialized variety. The lines are going to be blurred, meshed and squished. The real issue, however, is not the role warfare itself.

There will always be builds, 1v1 that will just be flat out superior to another. That doesn't mean that OPed or game breaking builds shouldn't be fixed (or we'd still all be toting lrm ownage). However, at the end of the day this is a team game and we win when we work together. That doesn't mean that we don't potentially have killer rounds with four or five kills, or disasterous rounds where we rounded a corner into two gausscats and exploded. I believe the LRM builds could use some help after the brutal nerf we got a few days ago. LRMs are still useful in the hands of a skilled pilot, though that can be said of any weapon system in the hands of a professional. However, the game currently has several weapon systems that are, shall we say, subpar. I, and I'm sure many of you, certainly don't want to see the LRMs in that category. They're not there currently, but, that was simply far too excessive of a correction. Hopefully they will see this (especially given the much larger costs of equipping such Artemis systems and ammo) and tweak the performance of the weapon system back up to where it needs to be.

[Smoke Dancer]

Part of the problem isn't the LRMs as such it is people not using the R key to target the opposition. Where they do you'll find LRMs to be much more effective. When you are on a team that doesn't you almost might as well not be firing them at range at all. That said the flight time of the LRMs is too high particularly at ranges of 200-300 metres.

[Jape]

I think, to hit light mechs more easily, the missile speed should be increased. They seem to be tracking just fine, but move only just faster than a Jenner at full steam. This would in no way increase their effectiveness against slow targets as they can't escape from the missiles anyway. Besides, it looks kinda stupid that the missiles have a huge tail of flame but move so slowly.

Edited by Jape, 15 November 2012 - 05:53 AM.