46 replies to this topic

[Monarch Black]

I have been in clans, guilds, corporations, etc in the past when I was younger. I played on CAL and OGL teams back in the day on Counter-Strike 1.6, I was in a clan in Homeworld, I was in a large 0.0 alliance in EvE when it was still in its first 3 or 4 years and still fun, I was in a decent sized guild in DDO (both before & after F2P) and I have plenty of Steam friends to play L4D vs matches or CSS/CSGO. But now I am older, have less time and have an irregular playing schedule, so I play casually. I'm in a company on WoT, but not a competative one. I am sometimes on a Vent or TS with long-time gaming pals. Sometimes I don't log onto a game or comms for weeks.

Which is to say, I know all about grouping but that time is passed... unless I get really into a game. This has not happened yet here. Voice should be integrated in the game, like most other games I have enjoyed for years, and I guess it will be in the future. I'm not going to log on a 3rd-party, external program to talk with strangers I have no current plans to deepen a relationship with. If a game really grabs me, I could see me joining another group, but until that happens I am just a casual, lonewolf. AKA the average gamer.

[Nightfire]

I don't usually post because I really don't feel the need unless I feel like I'm adding something. Bear with me here because I am going to go somewhere with all of this. I've seen a lot of posts that I've wanted to respond to but as is almost always the way, someone said something -close- to what I wanted to say I didn't add any more. As such it's not your post specifically, EdgePain, that promoted me to do so but rather it has numerous points I can respond to so I'm using it as a vehicle.

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

This should be obvious... apparently it isn't...
I won about 10~20% of my matches today in PUGs... joining a group just leads to PUG stomping and zero challenge. When you play on peak times, you really get stomped.

That's because it's not "Premades" that are "stomping" you, it's because you don't have an effective way to communicate. I started out pure pug and got stomped often. It was closed beta though and I felt privileged to be there and hey! This was the first Mechwarrior game in a decade! So I persevered. I didn't even know there was a forum at that point. When I did find the forum, I finally found the equivalent to this:http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/
So I did then as I still sometimes do now. I jumped on Teamspeak (I've had TS, Vent, Mumble, etc installed for ages since I prefer online co-ordinated play in -many- games), joined the server and looked around. I looked at the various dropship channels, found one that didn't have 8 people (they were 8 man teams at the time) and asked if they had a space. Thus began my usual routine for quite a while. These probably qualify as "Premades" for a lot of people but I didn't know them before I joined, there was no selecting the best players, there was no arbitrary mach requirements and no minimum match limit. I still do this (albeit not as often) and I've yet to come across any of this. I have come across many crass players but only one truly rude player who I still wish I could add to my blocked list ... just in case it has an effect later on. I have at times dropped for 8 hours straight in these groups, sometimes for two matches and then left. Usual etiquette, if you have to AFK for more than a few minutes, is just drop from group in game but stay in the TS channel. We'll drop without you and pick you back up on the next drop if you're back. Most people I've met are mature, many have kids themselves, none have ever been a hard *** to anyone needing to take time away. BTW, you'll find me and people like myself of the North American TS3 server. Hope to see you there!

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Premades have too many advantages... comms, no trials, well equipped, known weight classes, proper strategy, focused fire, less DCs/AFKs/Suicides. Just because premades were cut in half doesn't mean they still don't have an advantage as they can more easily control their extra 4 guys as opposed to potentially 8 uncoordinated. The odds two premades meet seems to be rather slim. Even if you don't use comms, it's impossible to not have some of those advantages.

Let me put this back into perspective a bit.

• comms : Communication
  
• no trials : I started running trials until I earned the cash to buy and equip 'mechs. Yes I have a founders bonus but my RL friends didn't and don't. They still have their own 'mechs.
  
• well equipped : You really think so? You'd be surprised. Most have only a couple of well equipped 'mechs at this point.
  
• known weight classes : Communication
  
• proper strategy : Communication
  
• focused fire : Communication
  
• less DCs/AFKs/Suicides : Well, knowing who you're playing with ... Communication

Since a good deal of these "Premades" are really only "Pubs on Teamspeak" what you are saying is those who can communicate have far too great an advantage over those that can't. I won't deny they don't have an advantage, heck I play this game for the co-ordinated team play! This truly is a game that is team orientated and structured. I agree that integrated voice comms should have been a priority but I don't dictate PGI's development or release schedule and I am not privy to what else is going on in their workflows so I don't judge. Integrated voice isn't done yet, that is simply the reality. Voice isn't something you can't participate in though, you can do so on a casual basis despite what other people claim. I did and I honestly can't see why it would be different for anyone else save desire.
Premades cut in half? Didn't do anything to my enjoyment of the game itself, I still get to blow up big, stompy robots. I don't lose or win more or less often than before. The only change for me is I don't get to joke around with as many people in Teamspeak while playing.

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I want an even playing field, otherwise it's not a game... it's an exercise in futility... If you join a premade just to win, I consider you an exploiter and a cheater and you perfectly fit the P2W mentality. This will just destroy the game in the long run as it's the typical catering to hardcores. If you join one to play with friends/clan... I understand as there is no other option, but I see almost no clans or groups of people complaining about the challenge when they should be.

I join teams because I enjoy the co-ordinated teamwork. I joined a clan in CS. I join squads in BF1942/BF2/BF2142/BC/BC2/BF3 and use voice. I don't do it just to win but I have a feeling you will think that I do. If you feel that playing the game the way it was intended to be played, in keeping with the spirit of the game is cheating then I think you need to shift your perspective a little. Right from the outset this game was marketed as a team based game where teamwork was touted as a very real advantage. If you think that is exploiting, I suggest you tell the devs that they are doing it all wrong. The main reason for highlighting this is, the advantage you complain about is available to you! Easily! Dropships of PUGs are waiting for you to show up and ask to join! If you see a legal and legitimate advantage, refuse to use said advantage and then complain about said advantage ... I'm not sure what else to tell you.
As for the challenge. The games we "Premades" remember and talk about are not the "PUGStomps" you seem to think we gloat over. It's the tight matches when the victor is one lone 'mech, with a red engine, one leg and only a small laser left! Those are the stories for the fireplace! We play the game but those I play with don't take pride in stomping pugs and taunting them is not only bad form but condemned.

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Solo queue with at least some semblance of MM solves all the problems, but they won't do it for some unknown reason... Once they have 8v8 premades, there is no excuse for not having one as fill-ins to premades would no longer be required. In game comms also solve a lot of problems (they create some others too)... but also aren't implemented. Also, servers by location/language would also help tremendously.
And I don't want to hear the "it's beta" BS... they went public and the game's reputation is on the line... nuff said. If they're going to boast that they made 5 mil with their own kickstarter... they can kick some of it back into the game first.

Won't or you want to complain about a specific feature you think should have been in before Open Beta started? The Match Maker is being improved as fast as their resources will allow. You may not want to hear "It's Beta" but simply stating that tells me that you obviously know that it is! $5 Million certainly helps and I am proud to have contributed to that but cash does not automatically translate into hired, competent coders! There are many things wrong with this game. Weapon and heat balance is a little out (Will we ever fear PPC's?), ammo can be hideously expensive and what I consider, by far, the worst issue is the poor net code issues that come hand in hand with server authoritive code. The next release of the Match Maker is coming, at least you have ETA's on fixes to your primary issue!

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

And of course it's already been said, but people don't have time to adjust to all the nuances... they'll just move on to something else, and there's plenty of F2P options out there now.

Agreed. The forums are really the primary source of information and there really isn't any direction to them from within the game itself.

EdgePain, on 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Just on TS itself:
It's an external method to group for the game, which isn't fair to new players or trials that don't know about it, or don't get in a group. Because it's external, not everyone is comfortable with it as it's not fully usable in full screen.
Microphone required. Not everyone is able to use a mic every time (or at all).
It's public, some would prefer private, which in-game only provides.

External: True, I can get that.
Unusable in Full Screen: You can get the Overwolf overlay extension that functions in game directly from the TS download site.
Microphone Required : Untrue. You can type out of game in the TS chat and as long as you can hear, you can receive direction!
Public : Not sure what your issue here is exactly.
Now for the final crux of this. The devs in this game have been overly transparent and forthcoming. I think this gets them far more grief that is truly deserved. Yes this is Open but it is still Beta! Things are being fixed and I'm happy to help them find bugs and play while they fix rather watching the calendar for some future date when I can blast things with PPC death! I see far too much vitriol on these forums when far more can be achieved by using a bit of tact and objective statement of fact. Hyperbole and projection does not help the core issues here. We all know this Match Maker doesn't work for anyone at the moment but the Dev's already know this! Being condescending, antagonistic and confrontational won't bring about change any faster! A fix is coming! Let's wait and see if this next one improves things and then provide objective feedback?

[Bloody]

like many here i am unfortunately one of the older crowd. Gone are my care free days of playing 60 hours straight of EQ raids. 18 hour CS sessions . breaking 2 mice on Diablo 2 and spraining the clicking fingers . Yes growin up and getting responsible sucks. It happens. You now do the right thing and for an hour or 2 every day or weekend you just onto your machine ( which at this point due to upgraded cash flow, is probably waaaay uber compared to your broke but carefree days ) and hope to get 1-2 hours of gaming done.

again, there is little in MWO which actually facilitates the group and chat functions. 3rd party c3? Any newbie looking at the front page will go, what is that? where do i get it ? it is not on the front page? it is 3rd party ? why is it not intergrated into the client? etc etc The devs are really really slack in that regard.

so we end up pugging, Lets face it, that is all we really have time for. We dont want to let our clan or teamates down cos 5 minutes into a match we HAVE to be afk. ( insert REAL LIFE excuse here ). So we pug, And that is just the way it is.

[Dorque]

I work nights, I hate voice chat, I don't enjoy long play sessions as much as I used to. I spend plenty of time on the phone in front of a computer at my job as it is.

[8RoundsRapid]

Why not join a group?

1) No headphones means i use my speakers and I have 2 young children (2 and 4 yo) and a wife who don't really need and/or want to hear ts/vent chatter and all that comes along with it. My computer is in a small nook thingy attached to the living room and ts/vent/comms are extremely intrusive to them. I hate headphones.

2) usually I have 20-40 mins to play at a time, with the 20min time the more common amount. Logging onto comms finding a group only to leave 10 mins later is just one more barrier to what i want to do: blow up mechs or die trying.

3) I have had my fill of grouping w/ randoms on the internet. Like some have already posted, I've done lots of it over the last 10 years, and I'm pretty much just over it. No offense

4) For me, right now MWO is not about stats or winning (although winning IS nice). Its about learning, experimenting, and farming cbills. Dont get me wrong, I play to win, I'm a competitor, but winning/losing is absolutely meaningless right now. When the factional warfare stuff gets implemented, this will change, but for now, we're in the preseason as far as i'm concerned.

5) I have fun playing MWO in pugs. Hard to believe, I know, but this is a very important fact. Might be THE most important reason, actually.

6) I've become anti-social in my old age and cant stand 85% of the garbage people spam into their mics. Not too mention the ones who have too much gain, or not enough, or go afk with their mic open, or fight w/ their mom w/ the mic open, or whatever. ts/vent can be a royal pain in the arse.


If the me of 5 years ago was writing this, I'd already be in a clan/guild/whatever, I'd be playing 5-8 hours a day and ******** about all the stupid inconsequential stuff I see most of you ******** about, and I'd be doin it on comms. But now, for me, its simpler, easier, and causes alot less bumps for my family and I if I just hop on here now and again and play a few on my own, then hop off. As a stay and work at home dad, I can do that on and off all day long, and adding comms into that equation makes it seem less... efficient.

So basically it all boils down to convenience, grumpiness, and efficiency. Like I said, if i was younger without a family, I'd be on comms gettin it on. But until these matches start to mean a bit more, I can do without comms.

[Lorcan Lladd]

I haven't yet met any groups I would be interested in regularly playing with.
At this point, I'm just joining random drops and taking notes on the names of pilots with whom I seem to get along - perhaps nothing will come of it, but we might just be able to form a group or clan of our own.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 12 November 2012 - 12:38 AM.

[The Gunman]

Joined a group, Gaming rig broke 2 days latter. :'(