29 replies to this topic

[Tyrzun]

ebea51, on 12 November 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

I agree... but i also DISAGREE.

The only people completely put out by 4man group limits are the players that are hardcore(?) and are clanned up and organised and run TS3 and play properly... like myself. I am one of these people.

The TARGET playerbase for the 4-man team however is the PUG.
Who are a far greater componant and louder voice then us organised and clanned folk. The 4man grp limit is to help the pugs and newbies who ARNT clanned and organised.

Which, WE HAVE TO ACCEPT are going to be a large part of the MWO community.
PGI have to please them as well as us.

Phase 2 is coming.
Then were back to organised drops and all that jazz and when Phase 3 is out - everything will be sweet. Right now we just have to wear it :*(

... i dont mind to be honest though.
Yeah its harder to get full group and full drops going. But we have a 60% chance... and even if we do only drop 4 into a full pug - we still all usually win

Moral of the story kiddie:
CLAN UP AND PLAY MWO THE WAY IS WAS MENT TO BE PLAYED WOOT! ;P

Finally someone with a brain.

NEW players do not join clans typically.

All that is being done here is toally whinning. Those same new players that are do not come ready made in a clan and don't just give their loyalty to people they don't know are in the PUGS. What the OP and some others play this game for is... to get easier kills.

OP whinning about a dropping K/D ratio and then mentioning TEAM is hillariously hypocritcal. A scout doesn't GET many kills because that's not his job. So, you're stupid K/D ratio means NOTHING on how good of a player someone is for the TEAM. The guy out there drawing fire and giving everyone else clean shots ALSO has a poor K/D ratio, but he is critical to the teams success.

The ONLY people whinning about K/D ratio or those that think it is important is the self centered COD Call of Duty player. That's it. A REAL TEAM player is concerned with W/L record and that's it.

That being said PUGs are maddeningly broken for 2 reasons that I have posted multiple times.

#1 There are 2 types of players generally. TEAM players and SOLO K/D players. Their motivations are totally different.

One is satisfied with the WIN the other wants to brag on his K/D ratio. Most K/D ratio people will not risk their lives jumping into a 1 vs 2 situation to try and save someone, and will instead look for the easist kill and will sacrifice their fodder aka team to do it.

#2 They need to REMOVE K/D ratio from TEAM matches totally because it is a FALSE indicator of how good someone is at TEAM play where there are multiple roles and not who gets "last shot" on a target for a Kill.

The only kind of match that should have K/D is a SINGLE player death match. That's it.

PGI needs to allow people to play how they want. Let those interesting in SOLO play go SOLO, you can't force them to play "right". Let the team people play team. Mixing the 2 makes both sides unhappy.

None of this says yeah letting you have 8 mans vs 2 4 mans is FAIR. You do not care about FAIRNESS and only what you want. Like I said OP you have that ME ME ME COD mentallity.

[Staplebeater]

Tyrzun, on 12 November 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

OP whinning about a dropping K/D ratio and then mentioning TEAM is hillariously hypocritcal. A scout doesn't GET many kills because that's not his job. So, you're stupid K/D ratio means NOTHING on how good of a player someone is for the TEAM. The guy out there drawing fire and giving everyone else clean shots ALSO has a poor K/D ratio, but he is critical to the teams success.

No it is not. I have multiple goals both personal and group. KDR is one measure of personal skill in the mech class i have chosen. I don't play a scout, my job is to kill stuff. Scouts typically don't kill stuff so other people need to (at least for an non cap victory) My KDR is linked to my team winning. If i go 1 to 1 KDR long term we are going to lose unless someone else is going 3 or 4 to 1. In team sports the team win is the only thing that counts but they still track individual stats. We do this cause everyone wants to be the best and to determine this and where you stand you need to measure something. If you can't say it with a number it is an opinion. Right now the only individual number we have is KDR. I would love to see assists, spotting and other numbers as well

If you read the thread i said i just want to go to phase 2 where it is premade on premade so we can coordinate and do our best to fight and win. The team can figure otu over time what the best composition is to be safe against all other compositions. How many scouts? How many LRMs? etc etc.

Let the PUGs play against the PUGs and the premade play against the premades. PGI is just frustrating and angering those that want premade battles by forcing them to herd cats for 4 of their teamates rather than working as a team and learning from failure

Edited by Staplebeater, 12 November 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[Taryys]

This 100% this.
We have been dropping with 4 people and still winning 90% of our games.
The matches are closer, which is a good thing.

And, yes this is just a step in the process.
Complain less. Play more.

armitage, on 11 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

If you cannot be successful as a four man group then the eight man group is just providing you and crutch and you're going to get a rude awakening when phase 2 is always pitting you against another full premade. Rather than complain about it, use to expose your weaknesses and learn from it.
We have been doing coordinated drops like everyone else and its pretty common for use to end up split between the teams or even 2 teams vs 1 team and pugs, but never have we pulled any "antics" like that, and I'm sure that goes for most corps. If anything we target each other first knowing that what their capable of.
Considering I PuG more than I play with my corp due to time constraints , 4 man groups are a fair better option for the lone wolf, which is probably a larger portion of the player base.

[Noth]

I find the lack of patience and understanding of the OP disturbing.

Edited by Noth, 12 November 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[renahzor]

What happened to all the "You'll still be terrible in phase 1" and "Learn to play and organize your pug and stop whining" and "Premades aren't even common so they aren't a problem to your playstyle" posts?

Staplebeater, on 12 November 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

No it is not. I have multiple goals both personal and group. KDR is one measure of personal skill in the mech class i have chosen. I don't play a scout, my job is to kill stuff. Scouts typically don't kill stuff so other people need to (at least for an non cap victory) My KDR is linked to my team winning. If i go 1 to 1 KDR long term we are going to lose unless someone else is going 3 or 4 to 1. In team sports the team win is the only thing that counts but they still track individual stats. We do this cause everyone wants to be the best and to determine this and where you stand you need to measure something. If you can't say it with a number it is an opinion. Right now the only individual number we have is KDR. I would love to see assists, spotting and other numbers as well

I'm glad you readily admit how terrible you are without the crutch of an 8 man group, but let's be honest here, 4 man premade vs 8 man pug should still win just about every time. And since as PGI said you wont see any other premade groups more than about 5% of the time (where are those real numbers by the way, empty promises) you should be steamrolling 95% of your games. Whining about lowering your KDR by playing with some pugs is hilarious. We all know you were in it for the easy kills to begin with there's no need to be so transparent about it. What do you think will happen to that KDR when you have to play against some real opposition? Think about what you're complaining about, you can no longer kill half of the opposing team for every time you die, because your pug stomps have been taken out of the equation. If you can't see how silly you sound because of that then I don't know what else to tell you. You should have left your KDR **** measuring out of the argument all together.

[CW Roy]

PerryRaptor, on 12 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

CW Roy -- I don't know how you communicate with these 4 Lone Wolves added to your team. I have no intentions of stopping my siege upon the enemy to type information and commands into Team Chat. Myself and my chosen teammates use Teamspeak.

Oh, you know, there are several ways to keep PUGs together.

"Go G line", "Meet up in E5 then push together", "Don't peak over the ridge", "Take the left flank, meet up in F6 then rush their missileboats", "Looks like they all went the other way to rush our base, everyone head back now".

You'd be surprised how often it's helped.

Edited by CW Roy, 12 November 2012 - 09:03 AM.

[Staplebeater]

Noth, on 12 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I find the lack of patience and understanding of the OP disturbing.

Not a lack of patience or understanding. Immeasurable frustration in trying to herd cats them dieing then getting overrun and dieing. Then the next match the same thing happening again and again cause we are unable to work with the same people and learn. It is a team game and i want to play as a team. I know it is bad for the PUGs let them have their ladder and let the premades have their own. All i am asking is to make that happen sooner. If i get curb stomped so be it at least i have the chance to learn from it and the team can grow and learn as a team.

What started this rant was when the GOONsquad tried to defeat the 4 man limit and matched against each other and wouldn't shoot at other goons. Rather they worked on the rest of us as an 8-man and then circle jerked and said how awesome they were and did 1v1 in a circle. I couldn't believe how I had a CAT chase me back to a group of 3 of my teammates and they didn't even try to shoot at it and i got killed (some of my own guys shooting at me). Then it all made sense they were all talking to each other and had gamed the system. We need to just move on to the premade vs premade and stop the illusion that 8 man premades don't exist right now. That is all i am saying.

What i find disturbing is the arrogance and condensation of the "if you were better you wouldn't die" crowd. I never said i was any good at this game just that i wanted to move on to 8v8 so i could learn from my mistakes and get better. All we have right now is chaos cause of the lack of coordination during matches cause it is a bit difficult to type chat and control your mech. My big mistake was thinking an online forum was a place to have a discussion about something that was ******* me off something fierce last night.

Even the community masters think this is a stupid post so i give up just delete it

[Al Bert]

sorry, but this is so much hot air about nothing. It is totally clear that of course nothing must be "fixed" since nothing is broken. There are certain reasons to go - for a VERY limited amount of time - intentionally with 4 people teams instead of 8; everyone knows there are drawbacks with it, but its less drawback then otherwise - again: we HAD this discussion already and the situation is as it was resolved then. The reason is the big emotional debate on 8 vs PUG (=pick-up-group). So everybody should just get accommodated with the current situation and wait for the phase 2 coming on 20th Nov.

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

[Noth]

Staplebeater, on 12 November 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

What i find disturbing is the arrogance and condensation of the "if you were better you wouldn't die" crowd. I never said i was any good at this game just that i wanted to move on to 8v8 so i could learn from my mistakes and get better. All we have right now is chaos cause of the lack of coordination during matches cause it is a bit difficult to type chat and control your mech. My big mistake was thinking an online forum was a place to have a discussion about something that was ******* me off something fierce last night.

Even the community masters think this is a stupid post so i give up just delete it

Nah, your mistake was posting a dead horse topic about something that won't change until it is slated to change.

[RAM]

Closed @ OP's request.


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