11 replies to this topic

[ebea51]

Gday MWO,

Been watching old Gundam anime - awesome stuff.
ANYWAYS ON TOPIC.
You watch those crazy gundam pilots and how they manuver around and all they have is a joystick, throttle and pedals... and i think :

'How the hell can you be THAT accurate with just a joystick doing all that ****, shots like that you could only pull off with a mouse... but a mouse would be silly in a gundam cockpit...lol ebe... mouse in a gundam cockpit. Thats a good one...
THEN WHY are they soo accurate'

COMPUTER ASSISTED AIMING.
Thats why... and it dawned on me that a LOT of issues with rubber banding, hitbox projection, joystick inaccuracy could ALL be fixed if we had COMPUTER ASSISTED AIMING IN OUR MECHS. You target your mech, move over it, depending on your weapon you get a general lock (ie. SSRM, LRM) or you get the option to float your lock over a part of the mech and wait for a second SOLID lock before firing your normal weapons (lasers, PPC, gauss, etc).

This second aim-assisted lock would take FAR LONGER then a general lock and would be instantly broken by LOS and have to be entirely re-aquired - so as not to make it OP AND (AND AND AND) would be DEPENDANT on your effective weapon range.
THIS would be MOST important because it would stop annoying gausscats (or gauss in general) PULLING OFF ******** HEADSHOTS at insane distances, to be pinpoint accurate you would have to close to effective range.
The quality of the lock would also be effected by how fast your target is moving. How fast YOU are moving, what weapon you have. MECH EXPERIENCE (ie. Master mech will lock better than a Elite or Basic mech proficiency). A percentage chance to hit would ALSO be incorperated into the shot so although you have 2 gauss rifles, a solid computer aim assisted lock on someones cockpit you still may shoot over your targets head, or hit a shoulder because your moving a little, theyre moving a little, your not that experienced in your mech varient, etc.
WOULD also depend on what section your hitting... so trying for an AIM ASSISTED COCKPIT SHOT would take INSANELY long and would be worth manual aiming anyways (in order NOT to make shooting cockpits out easymode). Conversly - larger quadrants (which are usually more heavily armoured anyways) would take less time to get an aim assisted lock on.

That ways we can counter for lag, hitbox projection, rubber-banding, still be accurate.
Would help on super fast light mechs. Would help blowing out specific areas of mechs for more tactial/strategic shooting (ie. Right shoulders on AS-7s that hold ALL their ammo and nobody ever bothers to C.A.S.E)

Would it be a good idea to have a COMPUTER ASSISTED AIMING module you could put on your mech for 5000 pilot XP unlock and 1,000,000 c-bills?

Surely in this advanced year of BattleMechs people have invented computer assisted aiming right??

Do you advocate:
1. Old school aiming
2. A mixture of old school aiming (current MWO system) with the option of a equip-able COMPTER ASSISTED AIMING MODULE working to the above system, or
3. A COMPUTER ASSISTED AIMING MODULE that changes all aiming on the fitted mech to computer-assisted aiming as disucssed above.

VOTE AND DISCUSS!

Edited by ebea51, 11 November 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[INAPPROPRIATE NAME 0001]

no

no
no no no no
nonononononononononononononononono

but also

ebea51, on 11 November 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

That ways we can counter for lag, hitbox projection, rubber-banding, still be accurate.

that's not how lag works

[TROLL v2]

ebea51, on 11 November 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

COMPUTER ASSISTED AIMING MODULE

Where I come from, that is called "aimbot" and if you use one you will get lynched by an angry mob...

All those aim assist features belong on consoles, where you have no other option besides inaccurate controller sticks and the player needs help to hit a target.

[ebea51]

TROLL v2, on 11 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Where I come from, that is called "aimbot" and if you use one you will get lynched by an angry mob...

All those aim assist features belong on consoles, where you have no other option besides inaccurate controller sticks and the player needs help to hit a target.

Not an aimbot because you need time for it to lock.
Also need to buy and equip.

I agree that it belongs on console. But people who want to play with joysticks or have to deal with INSANE LATENCY (ie. myself, who has never experienced a MWO match will LESS then 290MS) would appreciate it... and CMON... you can build a nuclear fueled death machine full of lasers and rockets and NON of it is aim-assisted.

Theres aim assisted sh*t all over the BattleTech universe...

[TROLL v2]

ebea51, on 11 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Not an aimbot because you need time for it to lock.
Also need to buy and equip.

I agree that it belongs on console. But people who want to play with joysticks or have to deal with INSANE LATENCY (ie. myself, who has never experienced a MWO match will LESS then 290MS) would appreciate it... and CMON... you can build a nuclear fueled death machine full of lasers and rockets and NON of it is aim-assisted.

Edit: the insane lag compensation is a problem for mouse players, too.
Theres aim assisted sh*t all over the BattleTech universe...

I understand that playing this game with a joystick against opponents who are accurate and fast with a mouse must be very frustrating.
Lets assume for a moment that PGI implements the assist module you want. What happens if I install it in my mech, but instead of a joystick I keep playing with my mouse? It would just make it easier for both of us to hit something, but I guess the joystick player would still have a bad day against the mouse player.
Besides that, the game would get a lot more boring...

Edited by TROLL v2, 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM.

[ebea51]

TROLL v2, on 12 November 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

I understand that playing this game with a joystick against opponents who are accurate and fast with a mouse must be very frustrating.
Lets assume for a moment that PGI implements the assist module you want. What happens if I install it in my mech, but instead of a joystick I keep playing with my mouse? It would just make it easier for both of us to hit something, but I guess the joystick player would still have a bad day against the mouse player.
Besides that, the game would get a lot more boring...

The thing is is that the aiming assisted module would work in CONJUNCTION to manual aiming.
If your faster on mouse or joystick manual aiming - thats cool. Do that.
If you want to take the time to get a assisted-lock AND be a good enough pilot to KEEP the lock (as that would be difficult as the lock would be soo fragile), then you can do that to.

I would want it to be an ALTERNATE OPTION or even a COMPANION to manual aiming not a replacement.

It would be a HUGE nerf to pilots anyways, computer aimed assist, because the entire time your not locked on is time your firing HOPING you hit something and gaining heat, or your sitting there NOT DOING ANY DAMAGE, only piloting your mech to obtain a lock before you fire.

INAPPROPRIATE NAME 0001, on 11 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

that's not how lag works

It would because you would be sending packets to the server confirming what you have locked onto before firing like with all the other guided weapons (LRM, SSRM).

Wouldnt FIX, would HELP.

[INAPPROPRIATE NAME 0001]

Well see, you could also just implement servers in australia and make it so you can play with others from your region to reduce lag like other games do.

Maybe work on coding it so Joysticks are as viable as mice.

I mean, for a company that has already earned five mil, this seems less amateurish and more just... outright offensive and a giant middle finger to you and your countrymen? Like, "Yeah we're not gonna put servers there but if you -do- want to be able to play decently, pay with two of our three in-game currencies!" which also would add to the ridiculous grind already slogging the game down.

[TehChi]

Chuck Testa.

[Roadbuster]

The only help for aiming they could implement, as module maybe, would be a predicted position targeting system.
So you would have an easier time aiming at moving targets. Would be nice for ACs.

The only problem is their messy hit detection.

[roguetrdr]

INAPPROPRIATE NAME 0001, on 12 November 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Well see, you could also just implement servers in australia and make it so you can play with others from your region to reduce lag like other games do.

Maybe work on coding it so Joysticks are as viable as mice.

I mean, for a company that has already earned five mil, this seems less amateurish and more just... outright offensive and a giant middle finger to you and your countrymen? Like, "Yeah we're not gonna put servers there but if you -do- want to be able to play decently, pay with two of our three in-game currencies!" which also would add to the ridiculous grind already slogging the game down.

We are pretty used to getting the middle finger, Blizzard being the worst offender. I'm hopeful there will eventually be an oceanic server since planetside2 have just opened theirs here.

[MagicM0E]

Nice idea Edea51, but no.

If you want a computer assisted aiming module install LRM's with the option of Artemis for that little bit extra.

[Chrithu]

I have had this joystick vs Mouse discussion a few times now during the betas for some modern space games. End of the line is: There is physically no way to reach the accuracy of a mouse using any joystick method, because the stick has a VERY small resolution (256 distinct signals per axis, whixh is still status quo afaik). Hence if you don't want to implement some aim assistance the joystick players will allways be set at a disadvantage in the accuracy department.

In space games at least you have slightly better control over your ship with a stick than with a keyboard/mouse kombo. But that is not the case here, because as of now (I am aware this is subject to change) when using the stick for movement controls it works like the keyboard meaning you either turn at full turn speed or you don't turn.

My conclusion: As a developer don't even bother implementing stick controls if you plan on having mouse controls. Every PC Gamer has Mouse/Keyboard and if you say from the start this will be the only option to control things then nowadays there won't be much of an outrage.