9 replies to this topic

[Ghost Inc]

Hello,

I want to address an issue, which is harrassing me for 2 weeks now (and that is since open beta came out and I started playing).

I finally got a grasp of how to pilot a mech efficiently in MWO, so I get frequent kills and assists. So far, so good. What I've not fully understood so far is where to move on a specific map.

This does not seem to be only my problem, for many people ask at the beginning of the game

"Plan?"
"Strategy?"

In my eyes, the question is, especially for a new player, extremely valid. However, the following answers, mostly from founder's players, are not helpful:

"Focus Fire"
- Ok. But how und WHO?

"Stick together"
- Ok. But where the heck should I head to and who can I trust to follow?

"Don't get killed"
- Ok. I will tr...(last words before a LRM Rain demolishes your mech, because you took a bad route).

So, my fellow mechwarriors: It is in our best interest to help people with precise information. Especially if you are in a premade team, please share your plans in the chat. Trust your pug-ish team mates. They may not understand your orders, but they sure can run and shoot.

The map is handily divided into grid squares. Use it!
For instance, tell people to go to g5 and wait.
For instance, tell people to attack that Atlas in F6 instead of yelling "focus fire" and whining afterwards because of no one shooting your spotted target.

Small messages like that WILL improve your team, they WILL help new players and they WILL NOT cost you a single c-bill.

Maybe you will even encourage people to use the chat themselves more often. And maybe people will be inspired to join a team after all.

Thanks for listening

Edited by IncorporeaL GhosT, 11 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Nexx Nisshoko]

So its very difficult to get pug players to coordinate anything. To many of them want to run off and do their own thing, which usually means end up dead when they run right into a pack of assault mechs or get swarmed by lights.

This just shows the need for a better system, but as a group player, I find the best thing to do is get a group of four on comms, then let the pugs run out and do their thing (soak damage) because often they will not listen anyways... Then take out the enemy Mechs as they are focused on your cannon fodder. Unfortunately is doesn't give you much option to exercise any sort of tactics, but it allows you to stay alive and make money until something better is in place. This sounds terrible, but really that's what its become for groups of 4, the other guys are completely expendable. \

I hope this gets improved soon.

[Hauser]

I don't know Nexx. I don't usually have that much trouble to get pugs to follow some plan. It doesn't always work and it depends on who you are playing with. FNGs just have too much to learn to think about tactics just yet.

The thing to realize though is that there exists the stereotypical image of some wannabe commander shouting orders at people. People don't like listening to that guy. You have to defuse that image. I usually start off with a joke. Something like "Hey lets all run in a different direction, they'll never catch us all!", "Everybody, 8-way split for the win!". Its also more effective then telling people to stick together because people realize for themselves that the 8-way split is not the best thing to do.

Once you have their attention and people stopped laughing you can lay down a strategy. Now this has to be simple. Something like this tends to work on caustic valley. "Lets do a D5 defence, wait for them to crest", "Focus on the first guy that comes over", "Scout plz check the 3 line, but don't get yourself killed, pull them to us"

Now the waiting game start. At this point you'll hopefully have everybody in position and waiting. Perhaps two scouts running about and that should be it. At this point you're up against the boredom of your pugs and the first target spotted by your scouts will make them want to run. It's easy to understand why nobody likes waiting, there is a target and it needs to be shot at. Now you have to remind them to stay put. "The trick now is to be patient. They will get bored before we do", "Be patient" And you repeat this once every 45-60 seconds or so. This is also an ideal moment to prioritize targets. Keep simple though. "Shoot the big guys first", "Shoot things other people shoot", "Fast guys shoot the other fast guys".

Now the first enemy is going to get close and this is where it gets interesting. There are a few scenarios here. In the ideal case the enemy got bored and comes over one by one. In the worst case they crest all together and you have brawl on your hands. In either case there is little you can do. If you can see the brawl coming you have a chance to put in some specific target priority information.

An other common scenario could be that some of your pugs get impatient and want to get in the brawl before the enemy has closed sufficiently. At this point you can either sit back and let him die. Or you can order everybody to move up. As tempting as it seems to let the pugs die, this means their death will be wasted to you. So at this point it tends to be a good moment to tell everybody to charge. Even a bad plan being followed is still better then good plan being ignored.

For everything else, you'll have to think on your feet and keep the limitations of your pugs in mind.

edit:

I've found that not telling the pugs that you are in a team works better then telling them you are. I'm not sure why this is but I assume they think they can use you as a shield. You can however use your teams mates to guide the pugs. They'll want to stick together, so if the lance clusters the pugs will stand around it.

edit:

Owh and one more thing. Don't ever rage against pugs in chat. You'll lose all credibility.

Edited by Hauser, 11 November 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Ghost Inc]

Hauser, on 11 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

I don't know Nexx. I don't usually have that much trouble to get pugs to follow some plan. It doesn't always work and it depends on who you are playing with. FNGs just have too much to learn to think about tactics just yet.

The thing to realize though is that there exists the stereotypical image of some wannabe commander shouting orders at people. People don't like listening to that guy. You have to defuse that image. I usually start off with a joke. Something like "Hey lets all run in a different direction, they'll never catch us all!", "Everybody, 8-way split for the win!". Its also more effective then telling people to stick together because people realize for themselves that the 8-way split is not the best thing to do.

Once you have their attention and people stopped laughing you can lay down a strategy. Now this has to be simple. Something like this tends to work on caustic valley. "Lets do a D5 defence, wait for them to crest", "Focus on the first guy that comes over", "Scout plz check the 3 line, but don't get yourself killed, pull them to us"

Now the waiting game start. At this point you'll hopefully have everybody in position and waiting. Perhaps two scouts running about and that should be it. At this point you're up against the boredom of your pugs and the first target spotted by your scouts will make them want to run. It's easy to understand why nobody likes waiting, there is a target and it needs to be shot at. Now you have to remind them to stay put. "The trick now is to be patient. They will get bored before we do", "Be patient" And you repeat this once every 45-60 seconds or so. This is also an ideal moment to prioritize targets. Keep simple though. "Shoot the big guys first", "Shoot things other people shoot", "Fast guys shoot the other fast guys".

This is it exactly. DO THIS. It. helps. so. much.
I can not stress it enough.

Some of your experienced players seem to follow kind of a misconception. New players don't want to laz0r everyone to death like John Rambo. They need orientation with a new game. If you don't get this, you will do what seems best: that is running forward and shooting.

There will always be fools, who do not listen to anything. While this is unfortunate, you should help them nonetheless.

Small anecdote:
When I first played river city, i followed the next best mech. Turned out he had no clue what to do. We got shredded. Next match, same map, I stayed behind. Got stripped by a Jenner. Then, in the third game, someone told the team to take cover in G5 and wait together, focus firing the first enemy mech. Worked out. I would not have gone there, simply because I had no idea about the game at all, not because I am desperate for glory

[knight-of-ni]

I think each map could be a discussion in and of itself.
I'm still relatively new myself and will share what I have learned. It's not a lot and hopefully will generate additional feedback.

As a scout, I'll usually say something like "will scout lower city" or "will scout the 3 line". Trouble is, I will sometimes see medium mechs follow me. Light mechs only, doh!

Sometimes I'll get a response "will try not to suck". You just don't know if they are kidding or are getting frustrated.

I often try to say something halfway serious b/c it seems to get some kind conversation started even if it is not the conversation I was hoping for. If someone has a better plan, I typically am pretty open to following it.

River City Map:
When starting from the lower city, "g-line" means to defend the g-line usually behind the citadel. I like this plan as the citadel has all sorts of hiding spots for my light mech. Imagine the other team's surprise when they turn the corner around the citadel to see the entire enemy team standing right there.

When starting from the upper city, I hear "Defend" a lot. My experience is that this doesn't work well as the upper city base is less defensible than one might initially think. Unfortunately, I don't know of a good plan when starting in this position other than kill them faster than they kill you.

Frozen City Map:
I don't know of a specific strategy starting from either side nor do I recall anyone stating one other than "Defend". Personally, I prefer to advance slowly on this map and watch out for that corner where many like to hide at.

Every now and then I see the "cave rush" request. In my opinion, this will only work against a completely disorganized team. I will usually politely object and will scout outside the cave in case the other team rushes our base the traditional way. If I can slow them down enough, my teammates will make it through the cave and cap their base before I get taken out.

Forest Colony:
Non light mechs typically prefer to stay out the lake.

From the starting position closer to the boat, I prefer to scout up to just behind it. I'll poke my head around it a few times to lure the other team to come through one at a time and (hopefully) get picked off by my allies.

From the starting position further from the boat, I'll scout from the lake up to the mountain before the boat. Again, trying to get the other pilots to notice me and approach one at a time.

Once the battle is in full swing, I will often end up on the dry side of the map.

I'm not a fan of the cave rush on this map either, but I've used the cave solo to get behind the enemy and attack them from the rear during the latter parts of a battle.

Snow Forest Colony:
Same map just w/o the boat.
I'll approach from the lake bed, taking cover behind the rocks as I approach.
Avoid the cave.

Caustic Valley:
A good strategy would be to form up just prior to the rim of the volcano. Scouts scout the 3-line. At least that is what I usually do if no other plan is mentioned. As already mentioned, patience and timing are critical here.

Got any suggestions? I'd like to hear them.

[Itsacon]

It's also useful to point out to people that enemy mechs, once spotted, get a letter designation.

After that, `Focus B' is a lot quicker to type than `Focus fire on the Atlas on the left', and more accurate as well.

It's also immensely helpful to LRM support, since they know which enemies will stay targeted long enough for their missiles to reach the target. Nothing sucks more for an LRM boat than have your lock broken one second before impact.

What this game needs most of all is an in-game voicechat system....

[Rushin Roulette]

Deffinitely needed. Players are complaining that premades are stomping the pugs... when the PUGs are the ones refusing to do anything as simple as communicating with each other. What is listed in the OP is the absolute minimum needed to be borderline successfull.

Ideally would be the following information; Urgency, instruction , Map coordinate, Mech type, Letter dessignation, general loadout and points to watch out for and what you are planning"

For example: "Need help in G5 against Atlas D-DC, Hotel with Long range weapons, Rear Center torso is open. Im moving towards you in C4"

Immediatley everyone knows where you need help (G5) against an Atlas D-DC with the letter dessignation H, that it is best to move close to the target (long range weapons), that you can take down the target from behind (rear armor open) and that the target should ideally be moving or looking towards the coordinate C4 which helps your teammates to find the best flanking route.

[skoot]

It's not as simple as this.

Some PUGs don't speak English. I've heard of one guy trying to issue commands in Portugese, but that's about it.

And simply, there just isn't enough time to type; and when you don't expect people to listen - why would you bother trying. If you are serious about the communication side of things - get into Teamspeak.

[Vincent Lynch]

I think it would be a good idea for players to list up languages they are fluent in, in their profile, and having PUGs selected by language by the matchmaking process.
Personally I'm pretty good at english but have sometimes the impression that no one reads the **** I write, and would love to have the game tell me at match beginning that the others prefer e.g. german.
like, a big flashing sign at the beginning "your team consists of <language> speakers"

[Arcturious]

Anyone who has been in a game with me knows I'm chatty and type a lot. I always try to let people know what I'm doing and where I'm going. I do think that knowing the maps makes a HUGE difference. Knowing also what the average PUG will do as the opposing team also helps. Lately on say, Caustic the vast majority of teams coming from the north will head down 4/5 line. The south team needs to start heading up the 6/7 line to start in order to flank. A single scout can go down 3/4 to see if they are more organised and doing a 3/4 stealth rush. If that is the case, by coming down 6 line you are already positioned to catch them from the side by crossing the caldera. Also if they do go 4/5 as expected, you can lure them into fighting in the crater by holding the 6 line. That puts them at a 15% odd disadvantage.

Etc. Tactics change over time and you need to stay current. Was a time where every single assault in River City came from the city side (G6/7 ish). Over time this has changed so it is now almost even with perhaps even more come from the 3/4 line. In response, I've taken to starting at E5 ish and using the bridge as LRM cover, while spotting to see which way the enemy goes. From there you are well positioned to hit either side and both bases.

In Forest Colony, it used to be whichever team took and held D7 would win. Now there are just as many successful assaults from the lake. People are starting to use the crests of the ridges more often now to launch LRM. Less and less are going cave as well. I e now started to hub the shoreline and duck in and out of the tributaries in order to be able to cover either side. Every map seems to have been developing to a point at which you need to be more flexible as the average pilot is learning the map better.

It's only a matter of time before the average skill level improves to where most PUG groups will have an instinctive knowledge of each map and how to respond to different tactics.

Edited by Arcturious, 14 November 2012 - 04:22 PM.