14 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

When an engine is too small to contain all 10 sinks, some must be place outside of it. Right now, this consumes both tons and criticals, making the weak commando even weaker.

Please fix.

[Ritter Cuda]

sigh it's not broken nothing to fix

[Squarefox]

I think it isn't so in table top, neither in closed beta. I also think it's broken and makes no sense. Why a mech needs 10 heat sinks? And if I have 5 doubles, shouldn't be that enough?

[Ritter Cuda]

Squarefox, on 12 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

I think it isn't so in table top, neither in closed beta. I also think it's broken and makes no sense. Why a mech needs 10 heat sinks? And if I have 5 doubles, shouldn't be that enough?

one dbl is not X2 it's 1.4 and it is a balanceing factor

[Tickdoff Tank]

Vassago Rain, on 12 November 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

When an engine is too small to contain all 10 sinks, some must be place outside of it. Right now, this consumes both tons and criticals, making the weak commando even weaker.

Please fix.

If an engine is smaller than 250 then the actual weight of the engine has been reduced by 1 ton for each heatsink that is *required* to be placed outside of the engine. An engine can hold Rating/25 in internal heatsinks. If you hold less than 10 then you MUST put those additional sinks somewhere on your mech. If your engine is 275+ then you can add extra sinks to the engine, these sinks will add weight but not space.

For a 225-245 that means that 1 ton has been subtracted. For a 200-220 it is 2 tons, and so forth. Also remember that the weight of your gyro and cockpit have been added to the engine.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Squarefox, on 12 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

I think it isn't so in table top, neither in closed beta. I also think it's broken and makes no sense. Why a mech needs 10 heat sinks? And if I have 5 doubles, shouldn't be that enough?

In TT *ALL* engines came with 10 heatsinks. If you mounted DHS then your engine sinks would be doubled as well.

MWO follows this almost exactly. As I said above, if your engine is too small to hold 10 sinks then you must put them somewhere in your mech. In TT those sinks would have taken space but would have had no weight (the weight was included in the engine). In MWO they did not want to have any heatsinks that took space and no weight, so they decided to simply remove the weight from the engine and then force you to put it back on with the heatsinks.

The math works out, just like in TT (with one exception that I know of), but it is allocated differently.

The one exception that I know of is: STD 100 engine, weighs .5 tons. Based on the way they are doing engine weights, it should weigh 0.0 tons. So I think we can give the game a pass on that engine.

[Vincent Lynch]

there's something off here, which we will see when the Flea comes.

a 120 Engine weighs 4 Tons, adding a 2 ton Gyro, so it totals 6 tons. but it can hold only 4 heat sinks, so according to that rule, it's tonnage in MechLab should be ZERO.

the 100 Engine in TT weighs either 3 or 3.5 tons, but requires only a 1 ton gyro, and can also hold 4 heat sinks. So according to that rule, in MechLab it's weight should be NEGATIVE, -1.5 or -2 tons.

It could be so much simpler: First 10 Heat sinks weigh nothing. End of Story.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Vincent Lynch, on 12 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

there's something off here, which we will see when the Flea comes.

a 120 Engine weighs 4 Tons, adding a 2 ton Gyro, so it totals 6 tons. but it can hold only 4 heat sinks, so according to that rule, it's tonnage in MechLab should be ZERO.

the 100 Engine in TT weighs either 3 or 3.5 tons, but requires only a 1 ton gyro, and can also hold 4 heat sinks. So according to that rule, in MechLab it's weight should be NEGATIVE, -1.5 or -2 tons.

It could be so much simpler: First 10 Heat sinks weigh nothing. End of Story.

Add the cockpit as well, that is 3 tons.

So it should be :

120 STD

4 tons
3 tons cockpit
2 tons gyro
9 tons
- 6 tons (heatsink requirement)
3 tons


In MWO: First 10 heatsinks weigh nothing, but the free weight was taken from the engine and then put on the free weight heatsinks, so the weights all work out in the end. Except for the STD 100 which weighs .5 tons instead of 0.0. But is that really a problem?

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 12 November 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[Squarefox]

Ritter Cuda, on 12 November 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

one dbl is not X2 it's 1.4 and it is a balanceing factor

One engine double HS is actually an 2.0, only doubles outside are 1.4.
(see here for example: http://mwomercs.com/...lence-over-dhs/ )

[Tickdoff Tank]

Squarefox, on 12 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

One engine double HS is actually an 2.0, only doubles outside are 1.4.
(see here for example: http://mwomercs.com/...lence-over-dhs/ )

To be a little more precise: Only the "free" heatsinks are actual doubles. If you have a 275+ with extra internal heatsinks installed (1 extra for the 275) those DHS are 1.4s. If you have a 250 engine then all 10 internal DHS are 2.0, a 150 engine would have 6 2.0 DHS and the 4 that they must mount out of the engine would be 1.4s.

[Darwins Dog]

They are working as intended as far as tonnage goes. 10 is overkill for some builds (actually only the 3xSSRM2 + TAG commando comes to mind), but you don't actually pay extra tonnage for the heatsinks.

I think it would have been problematic (coding wise) to have weightless heatsinks combined with normal ones.

Tickdoff Tank, on 12 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

The one exception that I know of is: STD 100 engine, weighs .5 tons. Based on the way they are doing engine weights, it should weigh 0.0 tons. So I think we can give the game a pass on that engine.

Also, no one would ever use a standard 100. Unless you want your commando to get run down by atlases.

[Raeven]

Ritter Cuda, on 12 November 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

sigh it's not broken nothing to fix

It is broken. Each engine comes with 10 free weight heatsinks, no matter the size. Engines can only hold 1 for every increment of 25 of the Engine rating. So a 250 can hold ten. Larger engines can hold more heatsinks, but they still weigh a ton each after 10.

Free slots - engine rating / 25
Free weight - 10 HS regardless of engine size.

[Ritter Cuda]

Raeven, on 12 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

It is broken. Each engine comes with 10 free weight heatsinks, no matter the size. Engines can only hold 1 for every increment of 25 of the Engine rating. So a 250 can hold ten. Larger engines can hold more heatsinks, but they still weigh a ton each after 10.

Free slots - engine rating / 25
Free weight - 10 HS regardless of engine size.

you get a HS per 25T so a 175-195 has 9hs so you are incorrect " Each engine comes with 10 free weight heatsinks, no matter the size" Here

[Dirus Nigh]

Vincent Lynch, on 12 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

there's something off here, which we will see when the Flea comes.

a 120 Engine weighs 4 Tons, adding a 2 ton Gyro, so it totals 6 tons. but it can hold only 4 heat sinks, so according to that rule, it's tonnage in MechLab should be ZERO.

the 100 Engine in TT weighs either 3 or 3.5 tons, but requires only a 1 ton gyro, and can also hold 4 heat sinks. So according to that rule, in MechLab it's weight should be NEGATIVE, -1.5 or -2 tons.

It could be so much simpler: First 10 Heat sinks weigh nothing. End of Story.

Cockpit 3 tons

Internal structure is 10% of a mechs weight. That flea's IS is 2 tons.

[Kobura]

Also the Mechlab includes Gyro /and cockpit/ so.

Not necessarily implying you forgot something, but just for the general information.