9 replies to this topic

[EtherDragon]

Hi Devs,

I know that you are working toward adding EMP disruption effects to targets hit by PPCs. While this is cool, I think you are missing an opportunity to add a cool weapon behavior that is missing from your stack.

Currently, we have the following weapon behaviors:

• "No Delay" Hit-Scan weapons (Lasers)
  
• "No Delay" Continous fire weapons (Flamer and MG)
  
• "Small Delay*" Projectile weapons (ACs, Guass)
  
• "Small Delay*" Launched, guided weapons (LRM, SSRM)
  
• "Small Delay*" Launched, unguided weapons (SRM)
  
• "Small Delay*" Instantaneous hit weapons (MISSING)

As you see, the one differentiating behavior that is missing is the Instantaneous Hit weapons. Each type of weapon has a set of behaviors that are consistent accross ther sizes. For instance, all LRMs are launched, guided weapons and all lasers are hit-scan weapons.


None of these groups cross polinate with the exception of PPCs, who (currently) mimic the behavior of a projectile weapon (already handled by ACs/Guass). I think all PPCs should behave differently from any other weapon.

My specific suggestion is this: Make PPCs an instantaneous hit weapon that delivers all of it's damage to a single point in a single burst without travel time. This would elevate PPCs to the dangerous weapon they should be without having to make any other tuning adjustments. Many players would turn to them as a different sniper choice to Guass - and a comparison between the two would be more balanced:

Guass - Low Heat, Long Range, Projectile, 15 Damage, harder to hit with due to projectile velocity.
PPC - High (Extream for ERPPC) Heat, Long Range, Instantaneous, 10 Damage, easier to hit with.

A note on "Small Delay" - while this is an artifact of net-code, I know you are working on removing it - so eventually all weapons will be "No Delay."

P.S. There was a game series a while ago called "Earhsiege" They did a pretty good job of stomping robot combat too. The pace was frenetic but not twitchy. IMO the best version was Earthsiege 2. Anyway - their "lasers" were instantaneous hit weapons, and were a lot of fun to use. I don't think this is suitable for all lasers in MW:O - because hit-scan is also cool. But we need an instantaneous hit weapon to round out the behaviors.

P.P.S Give a response with your reasoning, to keep this poll in everyone's mind for a few days.

Edited by EtherDragon, 13 November 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[Dagger906]

PPC is the energy version of gauss.

[PitViperK]

I think Small Delay applies because Particle Projection Cannons would be sub-light speed....and yes. Earthsiege was fun with their 'Hercs.

[EtherDragon]

PitViperK, on 13 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I think Small Delay applies because Particle Projection Cannons would be sub-light speed....and yes. Earthsiege was fun with their 'Hercs.

Care to elaborate on what the projectile velocity might look like?

Any velocity higher than 120,000m/s would seem instantaneous to anyone playing the game at 60fps or lower. A projectile moving at 120,000m/s would clear 2000m in 1/60th of a second. When converted to fractions of C, that comes out to 1/2,500th of C.

[PitViperK]

Probably closer to 5 times the speed of sound or 1701.54 m/s. At a range of 1700 that's just about instantaneous (especially since the max range is less than 1/2 of that) and with a higher frame-rate it is a small delay which is more realistic in range with the Gauss cannon. I say that because it's a pseudo projectile weapon. A physically projected ion.

Edited by PitViperK, 13 November 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Monky]

PPC is too heavy, damage to heat/weight ratio inneficient. ER Large wins out in any practical contest because it can fit 2 more heatsinks (possibly double heatsinks) for the same damage output, and is effective within most practical combat ranges. It is easier to aim and compensate for enemy movement and your own movement.

The only realistic way to put the PPC back into it is to add ergonomic factors - instant or near instant projectile hit, EMP scramble, remove your own movement effecting the projectile or tone that effect down heavily.

The only build I have seen make effective use of PPC's is the 4 PPC Atlas, which is loaded with heatsinks and nothing else, and still has heat issues.

[Strum Wealh]

IMO, a PPC bolt should be far faster than any physical projectile (ballistic and missile weapons), but nowhere near light-speed (lasers)...

Strum Wealh, on 10 November 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Faster would indeed be better, but near-luminal (greater than, say, 0.01c) velocity isn't strictly necessary - especially when considering the distances involved.

Consider, the speed of lightning through Earth's atmosphere is on the order of approximately 50,000 m/s (a mere 0.000167c).
For an ER PPC bolt traveling at that speed to reach its MWO max. effective range (810 meters, or 0.503 miles), the time-to-target would be:
speed = distance/time -> time = distance/speed
time = 810/50000 = 0.0162 seconds

The LCT-6M Locust, with MASC active, is one of the fastest known 'Mechs, topping out at 302.4 kph (84 m/s).
In the time it takes a PPC bolt moving at the "speed of lightning" to reach a Locust circling the firing 'Mech at the weapon's max. effective range, the Locust could have displaced itself by:
speed = distance/time -> distance = speed*time
distance = 84*0.0162 = 1.3608 meters (~4.46 feet)

For comparison, JR7-D Jenner (with a top speed of 118.8 kph (33 m/s)) could have displaced itself by:
speed = distance/time -> distance = speed*time
distance = 33*0.0162 = 0.5346 meters (~1.75 feet)

By contrast, an AS7-D Atlas (with a top speed of 54 kph (15 m/s)) doing the same thing could have displaced itself by:
speed = distance/time -> distance = speed*time
distance = 15*0.0162 = 0.2430 meters (~9.56 inches)

At less than two ten-thousandths of light-speed, an ER PPC bolt moving at the "speed of lightning" (as well as a standard PPC bolt with the same velocity) would have to lead most targets by less than two feet and would hit a target roughly a half-mile away in just under two one-hundredths of one second after firing!

[Dirk Le Daring]

Out of curiosity I did a search, and found this interesting thing....http://www.google.co...oYIkEzO94jHoBUg It is worth a read.

[Eggs Mayhem]

I feel that instantaneous travel time would be abused far too easily. A good example of this is MW4, with its rampant pop-tarting. One of the main reasons it was so easy to pop-tart was because aiming was too easy with lasers, because they were instantaneous (not to mention perfect convergence every time).

It should definitely be the fastest projectile but if it is anything near instantaneous then I feel that the firing delay should be kept, assuming it ever gets fixed. Twitch shooters would dominate the field far too easily, and the game will essentially become counterstrike with pure PPC builds.

[Skyfaller]

Dagger906, on 13 November 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

PPC is the energy version of gauss.

No it isn't.

Gauss is a coilgun. Fast projectile but still a projectile.
PPC is a particle cannon. Essentially a beam that ionizes the air (aka removes most friction) in front of the stream of highly energized particles traveling inside it.

PPC should be instant hit or at least twice as fast as the gauss.

It should also scramble any locks the target has...which I hear is a coming feature anyway.