3696 replies to this topic

[Protection]

After the recent discussion on third person, I feel that there might be a compromise.

On the one hand you have your casuals - who want a MechAssault 3rd person view, respawns, 360 radar that nullifies flanking attacks, big warning indicators for missiles and captures, and other conveniences. These gamers will never know all the ins and outs, tricks, or strategy involved in a competitive level - they don't have the will or the free time to go on teamspeak or join a Corp, and really just want to hop on for an hour or two a week and play some robots. This type of gamer will likely make up a large part of MW:O's long term revenue, and ought to be satisfied.

On the other hand you have your more serious, hardcore gamers. They want a high skill ceiling, lots of customization, gameplay choices and tradeoffs, They don't want silly, dumbed down mechanics like a respawn system or third person view to shatter the immersion or enjoyment, or give players dirty advantages (like looking over hills or around corners), and want a challenging and engaging experience. These players are going to be MW:O's "core" community - that do the podcasts, that run the tournaments, that participate in the leagues, etc - they are looking to be part of the game long term.

So how about a compromise, to leave both more casual players and more hardcore players satisfied with the game experience. Two game modes: "Casual" and "Advanced" (names subject to change if this sounds too demeaning to casuals).


Since PGI has obviously left their matchmaker a little undercooked and unfinished, here's the chance to turn that into an opportunity. Players choose a game mode: casual or advanced.

Casual mode:

• Has 3rd Person View (as well as 1st Person)
  
• Has 360 Degree Radar
  
• Can be played as simple deathmatch with respawns
  
• Has much easier and more forgiving heat mechanics (very difficult to overheat)
  
• Stock Mechs only - no uber-builds or confusing mechlab hassle, just the regular mech chassis designs (with reduced heat management, they ought to be viable)
  
• Only pitted against other 'casual mode' players: Quickmatch - fast, easy, casual

Advanced mode:

• Basically the game we are currently used to
  
• 1st Person Only
  
• Limited forward radar - rewards good flank attacks
  
• Capture/Defend and other more complex game modes
  
• Full customization and optimization (what we have now)
  
• Comunity Warfare, Tournaments, Leagues will be played in this mode

Does that sound like a reasonable compromise? Attract more casuals, while keeping the "easy mode" stuff far away from the more complex gameplay that we have come to appreciate?


My assumption is that resources are already being spent down that avenue.

And if it draws a larger crowd (which I have to assume is the argument in favour of 3rd person, etc) then the resources will flow anyhow. Some of the market research must've indicated that some people wanted 3rd person, even if most of us don't.

[Ferrohu]

I dont understand the hate about this, if you dont like it dont use it ( i wont i prefer 1st person), but more options are always better.

[Danger_Noodle]

Just out of curiosity, to whom would this change actually serve? It is fair to say that while we can only see posts in the forums and here and there in the feedback tweets; we as a community really don't know just how many requests there are for the 3rd Person view. Are there a lot? I've never acutally met someone who wanted it in Mechwarrior, but then again I haven't been on MWO long.

All I have to base projections on is the forum posts, and so far the overwhelming response seems to be "#$%^#$^@ 3rd Person." These are the people actually playing and paying for the game, even in beta.

Is there some market beyond simple hopeful speculation that a 3rd person view will appeal to? Is it a more viable market than MWO's current base? These appear to be mutually exclusive unless a real innovation occurs here. If so, more power to the developers; this game is designed to generate revenus and we understand that. (mostly). If not, it seems to guarentee mass defection from the current base. That strikes me as a rather irresponsible gamble.

Not identical by any means, but I remember SWG and the combat patch. Overnight ghost town.

[Zeh]

I do admit the casual/advanced setup does sound OK as it separates the two modes to such a degree that I would worry much less about "features" from casual creeping into the advanced mode.

[vettie]

I dont have a lot to say about this, except simply DO NOT DO IT.

Reason upon reason have been piled in this thread, I dont have anything to add except my desire and wishes.

My opinion is that it would ruin a potentially great game.

[von Pilsner]

FoxtrotUniformCharlieKilo, on 14 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, to whom would this change actually serve? It is fair to say that while we can only see posts in the forums and here and there in the feedback tweets; we as a community really don't know just how many requests there are for the 3rd Person view. Are there a lot? I've never acutally met someone who wanted it in Mechwarrior, but then again I haven't been on MWO long.

Apparently some kid at E3 didn't understand how to control a FPS with KB and mouse...

[vettie]

*shakes head*

Putting this in is so wrong...

[Blixx]

For the love of them Game no 3rd PERSON....

[bollemrk]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO



[color=#222222]So the have bin ling too us[/color]

[color=#222222] [/color]

[color="#000000"]In closed beta he have said no 3 person ever [/color]

[color="#000000"] [/color]

[color="#000000"]So now no more refund possible and hear is your 3 person [/color]

[color="#000000"] [/color]

[color="#000000"]This will most likely stop me ever spending money on this game and make’s me feel robed out of my founders package [/color]

Edited by bollemrk, 14 November 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Soy]

Vollstrecker, on 14 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I never said new players' feedback is not welcome, so let me make that clear.

I stated that it had been discussed multiple times in beta, and that there are good examples of why it is bad there. I then further said that the overwhelming response was negative then AND in the currently active thread/poll, which new players are able to (and are) leaving their feedback.

Step down from the soap box.

Yeah, I'm the one on the soap box. Right. Simply stating that each person has a right to stand on the soap box and give their opinion, regardless of whether or not they think spending X amount of RL money or being around longer gives them a right to a taller soap box or more time to stand on it. Everybody has a right to state their opinions, and simply dismissing new opinions "because it was discussed before" is, again, asinine. Money spent or time testing does not validate ones opinion at the expense of others. Get a grip.

Edited by Soy, 14 November 2012 - 01:49 PM.

[Teralitha]

I dont know if the devs will read this far into the topic but here is my say on the matter.

Let 3rd person player have what they want. However... if they want to participate in any kind of official event such as tournaments, and community warefare, they must adapt to first person. Its part of the skill curve.

I will also say, if PGI wants to go this direction, I remind them that they said this was a skill based game. Adding 3rd person reduces the skill factor. hence my idea above - not allowing 3rd person players into real competition matches.

I also think they are only doing this to bring in more players for more potential income, and the purity of the mechwarrior experience will be tainted. You will get more 3rd person players, but at the same time, make others leave. Its not really the best choice to make. I dont think u will really make any more money this way.

Unless you intend to support 2 whole different player bases, 2 seperate community warfare systems for each player base. 2 Seperate server groups, 1 for real mechwarriors, and 1 for 3rd person noobules. I dont see any problem with that.

Edit: To add something else, about the 'unfair advantage' thing... its not just about seeing around corners, its seeing OVER the top of terrain and viewing enemy movements when the enemy cant see you behind your hill. In one fell swoop you destroy mechwarrior forever. Like king Arthur and Excalibur.. When he broke the sword that could not be broken. And it took a miracle to fix it. That is what will happen here. Your not breaking the game.... your destroying the idea of mechwarrior in the minds of your true fans. Do you really want to break Excalibur? Because if you do... nothing in this world is able to fix it.

Edited by Teralitha, 14 November 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

I really hope there's more to this then besides what they saw 1 kid doing...

[Bloody Moon]

FoxtrotUniformCharlieKilo, on 14 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I've never acutally met someone who wanted it in Mechwarrior, but then again I haven't been on MWO long.

Some wanted 3rd person view WAAAAY back before the start of the Closed Beta, they were a relatively minor or not so vocal part of the community. They were chased away back then, either they adapted and play MWO as it is now or simply went to find another game suited for them.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 14 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Monoc]

I thought Russ was a staunch supporter of First Person only. What happened?

Don't do it, I don't want another MechAssualt.

[Like a Sir]

Ksajural, on 14 November 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

are you looking the poll here?

http://mwomercs.com/...son-its-coming/

90% people say NO!

Constructive feedback ? There the guy provided you with the poll, and most of the people who will play this game for a long time, are the fans of MW and BT universe. Your target audience is not a bunch of ADD kids raised on COD, but those people. They want nothing to do with the 3rd person view. You are trying to please people who are used to getting a "new" game every 6 months. They will get side tracked and bail on you, the second another shooter comes out, as a matter of fact, I bet if we could see the numbers, we'd find out that a crap load of them did, when black ops 2 came out.

See what ME3 did? Sure it made a crap load of money, but that was because despite all reviews the gamers wanted to finish their 2 games, and were hoping for the best. I can promise you right now, I will never pre order another Bioware game, and I hope the majority who played that, will do the same... I hate to say it, but your track record is far from perfect, and if you start getting greedy and trying to grab every gamer out there, you will loose the ones that are actually willing to pay you money... So yeah, there is your feedback...

[Scratx]

It is impossible to implement third person perspective without giving that player an unfair advantage over a first person perspective player.

Even giving that player just a little more than a view of his back means he can see exactly what he's being shot with from behind.

Isn't that already an advantage?

Sigh. Just look at World of Tanks. Would you ever play a whole match, moving around and brawling, exclusively from Sniper view? (that's as close to first person perspective as that game has)

Of course you wouldn't, you'd be insane to. Same applies to MWO, if it's enabled everyone will use it because it provides a major advantage over first person.

Provide a proper in-game training map/tutorial to teach new players to move around instead. Heck, 3rd party won't stop people running into each other and buildings anyway...

[Vlad Ward]

Honest feedback?

Mechwarrior is capable of filling a market void. I don't believe any shooter is capable of being "More CoD than CoD" or any MMO is capable of being "More WoW than WoW." I don't believe that Mechwarrior is capable of competing with modern FPS on their own terms. But why should it have to?

Don't worry so much about people not grasping the torso controls immediately. Build a good Mechwarrior game and people will want to learn how to play it.

[buckX]

I would note that aside from all the fracturing community arguments (which I agree is a huge issue), I'm not even sure 3rd person enhances the new player experience. Yes, the controls are awkward to pick up. That is true. It's also true that the ambiance of the game is greatly enhanced by the cockpit. One of the "Oh my God, that's AWESOME!" moments in this game was as I was lining up a long range shot far from the fury of battle. As I swung my crosshairs over my target, I realized "I can hear the actuators for my torso whirring", and it was glorious.

There's so much simmy goodness in that cockpit, and so much risk to splitting your community up. It's well known in the MMO world that making too many servers kills your game. Although it's not as central for MWO, it will still have an effect. Every "Match not found" is an irritant. You have a limited amount of "population currency", and there are already some things you need to spend it on. We all know phase 3 is necessary to long-term success, but what a lot of people haven't considered is that that fractures the community as well. Once you split up people by skill, you have a smaller pool to be matched against. Even in a game with a huge player base like LoL, people at the top level can wait for a match for very long times. When you have to choose between having more equitable matchmaking and having 3rd person view, what seems like the better priority?

Edited by buckX, 14 November 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Allekatrase]

I'll add my two bits.

The only place for 3rd person view is when spectating matches that you cannot have any influence over. This includes you being in teamspeak with someone in the match. So, basically, something like the Leage of Legends spectator mode where it's several minutes behind where the game actually is.

Oh, there's one other place 3rd person is acceptable. In an offline training area where you are not with other players.

That's it. Any other implementation of 3rd person view is a mistake that ruins immersion and gameplay by providing unrealistic situational awareness that would negate strategies.

[Selfish]

I dislike the idea of 3rd person, and making houses/mercs/clans allow preference means it'll split the already small userbase even further and potentially segregate new and old players. If you want players to understand the mechanics a bit better, just improve your HUD. The minimap is fairly confusing to new players. It has a tiny arrow with a dimly lit FOV cone. The compass is the second option for getting your bearings, but new players won't be able to tell which arrow (the up or down) is the one they should be looking at as their "chassis". Maybe you should change it to the crosshair (chassis forward) + circle (FoV) reticule.