3696 replies to this topic

[Minos Murdoc]

PGI think this says it all 90% of your player base does not want 3rd person view. If they are having problems give them a training ground area that they can go against bot-mechs or stationary mechs/targets

[DJO Maverick]

I concur with the overwhelming majority of the thread: 3rd person is a terrible idea.

Torso twist confusion needs to be addressed with a training mission, or at least an option to pilot around the existing maps alone with some targets to shoot. The idea of an additional window on the HUD showing orientation in realtime would also help.

I agree adding 3rd person would be a futile attempt to attract away players who will naturally be more inclined to play Hawken, which was always deliberately designed like a fast paced 3rd person shooter that happens to have Mechs as avatars. People who want that experience will go have it, and not want the slow sim experience from any camera angle.

I personally would not want to play this anymore, or invest any further in it, if the playerbase was fractured to allow that playstyle.

[DeathofSelf]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

If you change your view in Madden 13, does it ruin the sense of immersiveness? Feel like you're no longer playing football, eh?

How about Tetris. What view is Tetris in the first place. Does rotating the screen 180 degrees ruin your sense of perspective on things? This is no longer a game about dropping blocks into order, now it's a game about floating blocks into order! THIS IS CRAAAAAZY

It's just another way of playing the game. Why limit yourself.

Balance issues are just that, balance issues.

When people are faced with a radical feature like this they are concerned about their ability to
a) adapt said feature into their play
deal with balance of said feature

If is dealt with by PGI and the community over the meta maturation of the game and said feature, then really I feel it's down to players to adapt to said feature or not, at their own discretion.

Feature implementation has only one direct negative impact on the game and that is PGI's focus. I fully support the notion that there are more important fish to fry - because there are serious issues with the game that need attention asap - but I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that moving the camera back 5 feet ruins the feng shui of so many players that they would stop playing, I don't believe that at all. It's just another piece that you can utilize to garner information at best, as long as it is balanced. It can be used by anyone, newbies, pros, whatever. Nothing is stopping you from keeping your sense of perspective in FPS or using 3pv at your discretion, regardless of the risks vs rewards.

There is a saying that those who lose a sense heighten their other senses, perhaps consider this anecdote when deciding to limit yourself to only playing FPS, it might even benefit you in certain situations because you've learned how to take in the situation in different ways than someone who would use a 3pv.

Number one, this isn't Madden or Tetris, apples and oranges my friend. Your comparison is ridiculous.

Your argument of "just another way of playing the game" doesn't hold up, you can say that about any aspect of the game.

Once again the problem is the unfair advantage of seeing around corners and over hills without exposing yourself. This has already been experienced in the previous mechwarrior tittles.

[Alois Hammer]

StrogginOff, on 14 November 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Moderators, please delete posts like this. This kind of response really doesn't add to the discussion. This person could of gone in to the details as to why it's the "worst idea ever" but was way too lazy to do so.

Moderators, please delete posts like this. This kind of response really doesn't add to the discussion. This person could have gone in to the details as to why this "doesn't add to the discussion" but was way too lazy to do so.

[Rip Calkin]

Third-person view?

Uh... no.

That would take the game even MORE away from what it's supposed to be.

The game's already been broken, had any iota of team play and role warfare taken out of it, by the recent change to 4-man drop groups.

Adding in a third-person view is, as has been said already, nothing more than catering to the crowd that wants to turn this into nothing more than a KDR-supporting, twitch-reflex first-person-shooter game.

That would NOT, in even the smallest way, be the game we were promised.

Implementation of third-person view will ruin the game. It will ruin the game. It will chase many otherwise loyal, money-spending players away from the game.

It'll chase me away from the game.

[Goose]

Give us a button to center the legs under the torso, please.

[Thomas Covenant]

When I first played MWO I had a little natural resistance to the 1st person only, simply because I played MW4, 1st person for fun but mostly 3rd person.

When I heard how adamant Piranha seemed about it though, and for which reasons
•immersion
•skill

I quickly changed my tune. I like 3rd person games, yet for these reasons I was willing.
I think these are good reason, I think Piranha should stick to their guns, and I think the players will respect that.

[Spartan]

Implementing 3rd person view, while it may make it easier for beginners, can throw off the balance of this game and fracture the community. It invites making changes to the core values/pillars of your game simply to make the game "easier".

A far better and more important addition would be a true tutorial system. This tutorial system may even have 3rd person view available in it, but this is a "feature" which should not be utilized for anything more than a learning tool.

I fully support finding ways to make the learning curve a bit easier to manage (not this does not mean I support making it easier), however this should be done through learning tools, such as tutorials or possibly "instant action" style matches which do not net c-bills or experience.

[TruePoindexter]

Based on the responses here how many people have actually listened to what Russ said? I'm suspicious the number is low so maybe someone could transcribe it for the masses.

[Imagine Dragons]

Now that I actually heard for myself what Russ said in the podcast... 2 points...

1. It doesn't seem like 3rd person is 100% green lit, I almost felt like they were baiting the community to see what would happen...

2. This is 'big'

Russ brought up WoT as a justification for 3rd person view.

As a ... well, quite frankly "very advanced player" in WoT, I believe he was fundementally wrong in his comparison.

Mainly because WoT uses a different vision spotting system than MWO does. You can't peek the camera to spot another tank, that isn't being lit by an allied tank.

In MWO you could spot unlit enemies with a 3rd person camera... theres no "sight checks" that make unspotted mechs litteraly invisible, like WoT has. FYI, the vision checks stem from the tank itself, not the camera's viewpoint.

"But you can see where the enemy is looking and poke out and fire"

We can do that right now... its called the mini-map... kinda shows what direction the enemy is looking... its much faster than hanging on a corner and trying to edge your camera to look around...

Basically, your making a change because "another game does it" while being ignorant of the mechanics involved in "that game" AND making current ingame tools redundant in the process...

As a player who never touched a MechWarrior game prior to MWO (aside from Mech Assault) that happend to be playing WoT primarily beforehand, I feel that this explanation is extreme hollow and irksome...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 14 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[GutPunch]

3rd Person? Nuke it from orbit.

Tutorial? Yes but it does no good if you put the wrong expectations into the tutorial with 3rd person.

[EmptySkull]

I vote no.

I get wanting to make money. I get that for all of us to play PGI needs to make money. I get that the more players playing, the more money they make. But this was supposed to be a sim. Set apart from other games.

Make the game so spectacular that training wheels like 3rd person isn't necessary.

Instead of making 3rd person, dedicate the time into making a PVE training grounds for new players. Make it very robust and helpful in training them how to play. Include lots and lots of tips. Use the community to help with tips and comments. Start a new thread for developing this where anyone/everyone can submit suggestions on how to implement. That way we can get a real good trainer.


I'm not going to stop playing the game. I mean I'm heavily invested. But I do understand the need to get as many players as possible.

I just hope it never goes Pay to Win. And this possible change may be a omen for changes on other stances.

[Illydth]

A 3rd person view allows a player to see behind their mech. This is a HUGE advantage for stationary inderect fire platforms (read Missile Boats) as they do not need any kind of direct view of their target to continue attacking.

While a 3rd person view negates accuracy for weapons like a gauss rifle or an auto cannon, lasers will still track and can be brought onto target so long as you're "close", and the entire accuracy issue with close up fighting can be nullified/negated by quickly "flashing" from 1st to 3rd person view to verify your surroundings, before flashing back to 1st person to continue targeting.

Between being able to sit with a birds eye view of the battlefield and LRM (making you pretty much the ultimate spotting and long range attack platform), and being able to abuse a fast 3rd person "flop" to denote your surroundings and see where your targets are, this begins to nullify some of the neuances of the game.

By and large, this game is about tactics, good tactics take the battlefield. A 3rd person view nulilfies some of the tactical methods of a fight. By being able to maintain 360 degree visibility at the press of a button you begin to negate "stealth" or "rear attacks" as a viable tactic.

If, instead, you're talking about ONLY allowing EITHER 3rd or 1st person view in a match then you are immediately favoring mech types and eliminating certain mech type matchups. Those who run missile boats will permanently choose 3rd person view as there's almost no reason to be in 1st person view with indirect fire. Those who choose brawler mechs, particularly with aimed artilery like autocannons and SRMs, will be forced to choose 1st person views (you cannot aim a gauss rifle downrange 1K in 3rd person view...it's just not possible). In the extreme case you will be pairing fields of LRM boats with each other and fields of brawler mechs against each other and never the twain shall meet.

Recap
----------------
* 3rd person view benefits specific mech play types and hinders others. LRM boats with 3rd person views become "eye in the sky" "rain fire down on you" mechs with surperior visibility, range, and targeting. LRM boats already have an easy play style now, they don't need to be able to see the approaching jenner coming at them from behind who's managed to sneak around their position.

* Allowing switch between 3rd and 1st person views eliminates "position" and "stealth" as a battlefield tactic. Light mechs become much more difficult to play as you can no longer approach a target from behind and expect not to be spoted. Imagine the atlas with the ability, as it's turning to try to meet a circle strafing jenner who's maintaining position behind it, realizing that the Jenner has switched directions.

* Not allowing switch between 3rd and 1st person views will create "Support" battles and "Bralwer" battles in your matchups but will unlikely provide the "broad" battlefield structure we see now. LRM mecs have no reason to run in 1st person view and Brawler mechs have no ability to target in 3rd person view. Requring "one or the other" wouldn't seem to be able to work.

* Finally, 3rd person view simply ruins the feel of the Mech Warrior game. This isn't a "purest" attitude, it's a simple statement...this is a simulator, you don't play flight sims in 3rd person...

If the issue is players don't understand torso direction vs. leg direction, simply put a key in game that locks torso twist: With this enabled you have no torso movement and can only turn with the mech. This allows the new player to get the feel of piloting a mech without being cofused by torso vs. leg direction. Once the player has gotten the feel of piloting the mech, they can turn torso twist on and learn how to properly drive their mech after the confusing parts of the game are down.

[ThePieMaker]

I think this is THE worst idea PGI is thinking about going with. This game is a simulator not a simplistic run-of-the-mill shooter that can be learned in 1 hr. I think the new players need to suck it up and learn to control their torso by looking at their compass up top. I think if PGI implemented 3rd person they would lose TONS more players than they would gain, and the players they gain would be weekend warriors who do not play seriously and most likely would not buy MC because they are just casual gamers. The players who play now are the hardcore type and are also the type who would buy MC. They have also been playing for a long time and are most likely not going to stop anytime soon....unless they are shafted by the 3rd person mode which 90% of players will hate.
I really do honestly think that 3rd person would be a huge mistake.
-ThePieMaker

[col brewer]

no no and no it is not how i see the game

[Icebound]

Do not want!

[Soy]

DeathofSelf, on 14 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Number one, this isn't Madden or Tetris, apples and oranges my friend. Your comparison is ridiculous.

I'm not comparing the games. The notion that you thought I was comparing Tetris, Madden 13, and MWO is beyond ridiculous. I was comparing the sense of perspective you get from changing the view within a game itself, or in a more creative nonlinear manner [flipping your entire screen in Tetris]. Wow, just wow man.

Edited by Soy, 14 November 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[Multitallented]

No please.

[Wolfways]

Weapon stats.
Mech roles on the battlefield.
Mech loadouts.
Situational awareness.
Teamwork.
Map design.
Weapon grouping.
Etc.

These are just some of the things that players have to LEARN to play the game. Yet the game is getting dumbed down because someone doesn't know which way his feet are facing?
I find this very hard to believe.

If 3rd person is used in a training area only, then fine.
Out in the "real world", then no.

[DeathofSelf]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm not comparing the games. The notion that you thought I was comparing Tetris, Madden 13, and MWO is beyond ridiculous. I was comparing the sense of perspective you get from changing the view within the game or in a more creative nonlinear manner [flipping your entire screen in Tetris]. Wow, just wow man.

Yeah, wow, just wow indeed. You compared the changing of views, you are looking at this in a vacuum. There are huge differences between these games, so saying something like "changing the views in Madden doesn't matter, why should it matter in MWO?" is in fact ridiculous.