3696 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

John Norad, on 14 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

WTF?
I'll admit it takes a bit longer to get accustomed to the way MWO plays compared to, let's say, WoW.

BUT imho the right way to fix it is to implement a proper tutorial and some training ground map, instead of simply putting in a 'WoW' mode.
The reasons new players are turned off is not necessarily the controls. It is weak and overly hot trial mechs, bad matchmaking and lots of fast mechs circling them, LRMs killing them or double gauss'es sniping them before they even get a hang of it.

Make a small urban map with buildings making narrowish streets, provide the player with a slow (say 45-50 kph max) Centurion (average mech with an average height and profile), and give them way points to follow through the streets. No time limit on the map, could be expanded to include basic targets using a laser/ac/lrm on the mech. Bam you have a rudimentary tutorial in place that greatly helps new players learn the ropes. The only question is if anyone at PGI has the coding skills needed for basic event triggers/AI.

[Signal27]

mRWaffles, on 14 November 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Third person will inherently imbalance the game by allowing people to peek corners and hills without exposing themselves to counter fire. If 3rd person is allowed I want my 60 dollars back because Mechwarrior as a Sim dies with it.

Not if they do it like World of Tanks does it: If you can't see the target from inside your tank (1st person), you can't see it from outside your tank either (3rd person). Unless a team mate is spotting it for you.

[Karl Marlow]

I don't like the idea of a 3rd person view. It creates unrealistic tactical viewing angles. That being said I wouldnt mind if we could do a match review that would allow us to see our mech from the outside. Similar to the way you can record matches in World of Tanks and play them back later. I would love something like that. Seeing my better matches from the outside like a movie.

[Forluhn]

Please no! Lets look back at previous sub-par mech games. MW4 - Included 3rd person, Mech Assaults - all included 3rd person.

[cmopatrick]

RedHairDave, on 14 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

i am ok with 3rd person if its a module and it launches a drone that you can see and shoot down, otherwise, i am so very against it.

there is supposed to be an option like this eventually: launching a small drone spotter with limited range and duration, though i can not find the link right now. another option they mentioned way back was a satellite call that would show most (or all) of the map, though again for only a limited time. i did not get the impression when i read those that they would allow you to play from that position, though, just have more map data and targeting los.

[solops]

NO!

[Onyx Rain]

Small sacrifice IMO to open the game up to more people...

If you want future MW titles, it is critical for this game to succeed on a large scale, not just with the core BT/MW fans.

How it is implemented is key also...If it is a pretty tight view with just the shoulders/arms of the mech mostly that doesn't sound so bad to me.

Russ even talked about making it part of the MM options, giving us the choice so that you only drop with others using 1st or 3rd person view. Might be awhile off but I think enduring an open/optional 3rd person view in the mean time for the overall accessibility of the game, is a small price to pay. IF it does make some mediocre players that much better...think of it as a challenge. I've played game in both views and never found one to be particularly OP vs the others....but sometimes comfort does make a big difference in persons performance.

I bet 3rd person view or not, whether it is popular with the core bt/mw fans or not....most of them will continue to play, buy/spend MC. And if that ends up being the case and allows more casual people to enter the game that is probably better for the game in the long run.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 14 November 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

If we get this with the already controversial mech with JJ's and gauss rifles, I just might drown a kitten.

[Kzinti]

The only time 3rd person should ever be used in mechwarrior is spectator mode. Please do not cut the player base by perspective.

Thanks
KZ

[RedHairDave]

cmopatrick, on 14 November 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

there is supposed to be an option like this eventually: launching a small drone spotter with limited range and duration, though i can not find the link right now. another option they mentioned way back was a satellite call that would show most (or all) of the map, though again for only a limited time. i did not get the impression when i read those that they would allow you to play from that position, though, just have more map data and targeting los.

this is the only way i accept it, if its like (the god awful game)WOT then i am likely not going to last as a player. dont make the same mistake that drove so many away from WOT with their brain dead decision for spotting, having an atlas disapear 30 feet infront of you in thw wide open.

3rd person is fine if you can shoot it down.

Edited by RedHairDave, 14 November 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[Daekar]

So let me get this straight. They're going to add 3rd person to help people learn to use their mechs as a first resort BEFORE they add a training ground? Are you SERIOUS?

*sigh*

[mRWaffles]

The last thing we need right now is a community split. This is why I always argue against all forms of Pro-Mods. We need the new players and the veterans to be playing the EXACT same game. This is how communities grow. Everyone is playing the same base game, and if that base game is solid, balanced, and competitive, with a high skill ceiling and lots of deterministic decisions, then it will become a popular proper competitive title.


The hardcore player base is fed by the new player base, so it is essential that all the elements the core enjoy, such as first person, are shared by all the new comers. The last thing a small community needs is more splitting.


What we need is more content, better game play modes that force interesting tactical decisions.

Currently, with the silly single base capture mechanic, the game rewards swarm mentality. More units focus firing, wins outcomes. With new modes, that force players to defend more objectives and make better decisions, the metagame will develop and people will have more fun.


Simply loading up game after game and marching into a slugfest is pretty silly. We're bleeding players due to a lack of content and a low skill ceiling, not a camera perspective.

Edited by mRWaffles, 14 November 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

It seems new players have problem with torso twist, legs and movement and the coordination required to pilot the mech, according to Russ.

I was unaware that all new players had a IQ of 60.

[Prometheous]

3rd persons view means no cockpits needed (a remote controlled mechs), The cockpit space can be used to add more ammo or heat sinks but is prone to jamming but whats the point if I'm not full immersed in the mech & mechwarrior/battletech as a whole from tabletop to books & games the most important thing is pilots have all been inside a mech anything outside that is WRONG.

[Chrithu]

Seriously? This is the very reason why my children (should I ever have some) won't start gaming before they did get decent physical education lessons and can coordinate themselves.

I bet those morons unable to handle seperate movement and torso directions can't even walk straight forward for two steps. It's not like you have to be some freaking genius to figure that stuff out.

Also I do not ******* see how 3rd person will be much of a help with it. There are enough indicators for that stuff in 1st person.
Anyone unable to handle those things in 1st person surely won't do any better in third.

[arkani]

My post on the NoGutsNoGalaxy website:

This is a sim game, hard to learn, where you need to think about heat, weapons load outs, position, cover, teammates, movement and torso twist, radar awareness.

This is why i play. It is not a point and click, twitching, fast fingers crapy shooter game.
This game requires IQ. This game is fun because its hard to master, because you need teammates to cover your back.

I have seen other QQ’s on other subjects and remained silent because you guys deal with it.

On 3rd person view i cannot remain silent.
I like this game so much that beacuse of it i will be buying a new rig just to play it, i want it to be ready and good so i can play community warfare. I want to give you guys (PGI) real money.

I like the game. Please don´t ruin it.

Edited by arkani, 14 November 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Billygoat]

Now, maybe it's just me but... did anybody else listening to the podcast also get the impression that Russ sounded like he was desperately trying to rationalise a decision he knew was a bad one? And that the split-server idea was an adlib he made up on the spot to try to throw a bone the core players he knew would be rabid over this?

Heck, does anybody else detect the rancid stench of publisher interference?

[Squarefox]

3rd person is one of the crappiest things that can happen to a mech game. It would bring too many advantages to those, who would use it - therefore everyone had to use it. This perspective would bring much lesser realism and tactics and so would be terrible.

Edited by Squarefox, 14 November 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Taizan]

3rd person for "cinematic shots", Mech needs to have 0 speed (stand still) to have it enabled, I'm fine with that. Everything else is a no go.

[XSive Death]

While you are at it, don't forget to add in ammo packs and regenerative armour too.