3696 replies to this topic

[kalabaddon]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

I've yet to see one valid reason, other than splitting the user base between different styles, for not implementing 3pv - as long as 3pv and 1pv arent mixed. I think the splitting user base would be offset by the additional players brought in and/or kept with its addition.

how would splitting the user base be ever considered good ?

should they also split the game again the next time some polarizing issue comes up?

[Rejarial Galatan]

Loc, your idea works. Training area and third person is cool, heck I may go tinker there just to ponder my death skull, but, in a match, ranked and live? HELL NO. First Person only at that point.

[Rejarial Galatan]

3rd person view players in live matches, must NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be in the same map as those in 1st person. Also 3rd person view matches should be ARCADE, and not ranked, give NO XP or CB. this is a simulator, so said paul:


MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

I've yet to see one valid reason, other than splitting the user base between different styles, for not implementing 3pv - as long as 3pv and 1pv arent mixed. I think the splitting user base would be offset by the additional players brought in and/or kept with its addition.

Simply declaring an argument "invalid" without providing a counter argument isn't a good way to go about getting people to take you seriously

[kalabaddon]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just failed to read the whole post, let me repost the pertinent part here for you:
"...sic...(and believe me, there are tons of them, you dont hear them because they arent here....BECAUSE ITS 1PV!)...sic"

They'll come, if 3pv was added. Did i really need to spell that out though?

even with that in mind there should still be more people saying yes to it, this game is still in beta, now is the time for them to voice there opinions. I have asked several times to hear some positives about having 3rd person view.

instead of a "field of dreams" defense tell me some benefits that could be had from it?

[Zorrin Lodegeist]

I agree with some people in this thread, if they do 3rd person like world of tanks then this will be perfectly fine. If it turns into Mechwarrior 4 style then it'll be sad.

[kalabaddon]

also to solidify my thoughts on this all since i did not state it yet, I do think that replays and training/private rooms with 3rd person would be fine.

[AC]

Brien, on 14 November 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

If they give us 3rd person they should give us a refund option, I did not become a Founder to support Hawken I did it to support a Mech sim.

ugh.... hawken isn't 3rd person.

[Ninja Penguin]

This is a simulater... no 3rd person
Third person would give an unrealistic advantage of view point.

[Claw55]

In short: No.

A strictly 1st person perspective has been the focus since the beginning. The concept of immersion was one of the key pillars PGI promised long before we even knew what gameplay looked liked. I'm willing to forgive the BS we've seen in beta so far because PGI has said they'd iron it out, but going back on the key pillars? First person (ONLY!) game play is one of the concepts so many of us were willing to lay down money for, and that's what we'd better receive!

[Arcturious]

When I started reading this when there were only 30 odd pages I had no idea I would be replying on page 50+, I was beginning to worry I wouldn't get in before lock!

I personally don't want third person, however I'd be willing to test it for you and give honest feedback.

That said my main issue and the reason I'm posting is this. Please do not fall into the same trap that the recording and motion picture industry have created for themselves!

What I mean is blaming the player / consumer for your problems. Take the CD / DVD industry. When their sales went down, they looked at consumer habits and said "It's all that damn piracy I tell you!" They turned around and put 5 minutes of anti piracy messages at the start of their movies. The reasoning being "People mustn't know or realise that piracy is bad, we have to tell them!" Piracy immediately shot through the roof and sales fell even more. They then thought "Omg, maybe nobody knows about our products and that they can purchase them!" So they added another 5 minutes of advertising onto their DVD's.

The thing they didn't understand and still don't is that the people aren't wrong. They go where there is perceived value. If you make your product easy to consume at a price point people are comfortable with they will spend their money. Even more if they feel personally invested (look at the success of Kickstarter and your own founders program).

What you should never do, is blame your players for a fault. In this vase you have said "Our new players are incompetent, we need to make a change to our game to show them the correct way of doing things". Or rather "People aren't spending enough money, we think its because they just don't get it".

The harsh light of truth is that people are having trouble seeing the perceived value. Look at Lord of the Rings and DDO and this time truly understand why they succeeded. It's not because they added a store or created micro transactions. It's because they trusted the player enough to say "Here is basically our entire game free. If you want to pay us for it, that's great but you know what, we trust you".

Mechwarrior Online has made great strides in this direction. You can see your success in the number of people who have come out to discuss this proposal and provide their time and emotion to the issue. The core experiences in the game are great, the lack of pay to win is an excellent sign. However you need to focus more on facilitating a value proposition - which I know is on the way! More game modes, content etc. what you are lacking is the framework surrounding it. Group finders, chat, social elements, tutorials etc. As the saying goes "If you build it, they will come"

This move is fundamentally flawed as you already knew the answer to the question. This is not about facilitation, it is about control. Please listen to the responses so far and I trust you will make the right call.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Zorrin Lodegeist, on 14 November 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

I agree with some people in this thread, if they do 3rd person like world of tanks then this will be perfectly fine. If it turns into Mechwarrior 4 style then it'll be sad.

I'd rather they didn't do a WOT style spotting system.

[kalabaddon]

Zorrin Lodegeist, on 14 November 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

I agree with some people in this thread, if they do 3rd person like world of tanks then this will be perfectly fine. If it turns into Mechwarrior 4 style then it'll be sad.

that system can still kinda be abused, well kinda sorts, I can most assuredly make shots in 3rd person that I cant make in 1st person in wot. however thoes are just indirect fire shots so can maybe be called legit ( in a direct fire tank/td)

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Some very valid concerns posted, though I'm a little surprised by how offensive some people find the idea of giving players an option to run with a 3rd person view. Implementation would go a long way to determining if this is a good or bad thing. If it gives a competitive advantage, something that would take some work to avoid but is not impossible, that would be bad. That being said, the 'blind spot' us sneaky lights enjoy is a major break from BT literature. The canon description of the mech experience indicates that the cockpit view was a 360 degree view condensed down to 180 degrees.

Not being able to determine what is around you in a piece of warfare equipment of this tech level is quite frankly idiotic. I'm sorry but a lumbering 25-100 ton mech shouldn't be able to sneak up on another mech. ever. From TT it was all about firing arcs, not visibility. All players were always able to tell where all other players were on the map. That's not because they didn't have a good mechanic in mind for sneaking... its because everyone was stomping around in giant fusion reactor powered robots. Hiding without being powered down makes no sense at all aside from ECM or stealth gear.

Just my 2 cents. If you can do it without detracting from the first person view experience then please do. Most of your current players, myself included, like the FPV, so if cant pull it off without borking that then please don't try.

A key principle in business.... and like.. Ho downs or something...: "Dance with them that brung ya"
That means don't chase after new customers while ******* off your base... otherwise you end up going home alone

Edit to add: After reading the posts a bit more.. not all of them but a lot.... I cannot believe how many people see the current state of what players we can detect as 'more realistic' Being able to determine what players are around you should not be an issue at all. Being able to target/lock/select should be perhaps limited to within your current firing arc or within the arc of your team-mates only if everyone is on a c3 system.

Edited by Redmond Spiderhammer, 14 November 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Brien]

AC, on 14 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

ugh.... hawken isn't 3rd person.

From what I have seen it gives first or third person which makes it not a mech sim which is my point.

[Phanarch]

Here is valid feedback. No, no, no, no, hell no.

[Gimpy Warpig]

kalabaddon, on 14 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

the "vocal minority" seem to be in the majority for this game so far...

where are all the people who want it to be 3rd person? will hardly any of them put in the time to try to make MWO what they want it to be, it is a FREE game, in OPEN beta. why are they not talking ?


they can join, go wow I hate this 1st person stuff, and post about changing it.

did MWO just have the luck of the draw where most everyone who joined just HAPPENS to be a 3rd person hater?

Ah see, you edited and added content after I replied, so let me add: MWO has been dominated by 1pv fanatics (from NBT - which was a dead league but only just barely when this forums opened up primarily I think, but surely others as well) from Day 1. Additionally, MekTek were tightly involved with the devs of mwo in the early stages, and they as well were 1pv fanatics for the most part. If you were privvy to some of the discussions amongst 3pv teams when this stuff was starting to get rolling you'd know this same, tired...exhausting....argument of 1pv vs 3pv and the ridiculous heretical spewing of nasty anti-3pv crap from 1pv freaks, combined with MWO initially being ID'd/tabbed as "1pv ONLY!" has DEFINITELY turned hundreds away feeling MWO/PGI couldnt give a damn about them or what they wanted....

Then they extend a olive branch to us, and THIS CRAP is what the community gives them.

You should all be reveling in the fact that there is even a mech game at all to be playing, yet instead you're here hounding these forums and still hunting the proverbial white whale of the 3pv'er - and ultimately all it really boils down to for most of you is because you COULDNT COMPETE IN 3PV, and found a home with the other not-quite-as-good-as-3pv'ers in the 1pv "movement".

As far as "easy mode" and "arcade" comments - pathetic, its been shown numerous times that it takes more skill to be good at 3pv mech than 1pv...anyday of the week. Which isnt to say there isnt plenty of challenging things about 1pv, there are - and I love 1pv for nearly as many reasons as 3pv - but for me, I'd rather see the ABILITY TO DO BOTH incorporated and have yet to see a single post identifying a valid reason why not, other than splitting the user base a bit - which i think would be made up for with the additional players coming in.

I've said my peace, done for now.

[Runz]

Please for the love of God do not implement a 3rd person view.

Yes I know you see a lot of 'what about 3rd person view' threads on the forums but these are usually posted by the same six people or people who are brand new to the game and don't really understand the mechwarrior concept.

Please don't listen to the minority of players because they're loud and the spam the same threads over and over - don't be THAT kind of developer studio or else you will see this game sink faster than a non-swimmer with lead weight arm bands.

[Apex Predat0r]

No, first person view is exactly the way I want MechWarrior to feel. Even during colisions, I'd rather see the ground rise up to meet me from first-person view. It wouldn't be smart to try and devide gameplay between the first-person gamers and the third-person gamers either, deviding the player pool into too many game modes might accelerate the alienation of gamers Just don't do it.

Don't allow any third person camera for the very good reason of being able to use the camera angle tactically, like a persicope, or a mirror on a stick. I don't want MechWarrior to be THAT game, where the camper is rewarded for his location and the hard charging brawler is become a big, soft target. I'm sure there have been many reasons posted in this thread about why else not to allow 3rd-person.

[john shadow]

no clue y one wood wont this.so no way!