3696 replies to this topic

[Slaughterama]

Seems like they listened to the community about the ECM on the Jenner after a few people cried but are sticking to their guns on the 3rd person when 91% are up in arms.

The logic... it hurts my brain.

[Red squirrel]

No (3756 votes [91.03%] - View)

Is there anything else to say?

Yes, 100 pages of "NO!":
http://mwomercs.com/.../page__st__1960


PS: Why would anybody (sane) want 3rd person view?

Edited by Red squirrel, 29 November 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Guido]

It's all but set in stone, even though they say it's still in the idea phase.

I'm not an emotional person, but the second, the very second, I find that I get matched up against my will to players that are in third person, I will be done.

PGI, you will lose 80% of the competitive community when you fail to separate 1st person and 3rd person. You may think the competitive community is small, but nearly every one of us are founders, and the majority are Legendary. Can you afford to refund that many players?

[Puraaj]

clearly this company is not interested in making money.
lets for a moment disregard the idiotic price scheme on the camo's etc and just focus on this latest atrocity towards ones common sense.

this topic has 4135 votes, 80 pages. lets stop there for a second, having on a forum topic 4000 votes should ring alarm bells already, that means this is a very "hot" topic and people hold this issue close to their hearts, now 91% is vehemently against the idea with only 5% in favor
and STILL you want it in because of what? if you are chasing the mythical Casual player then tell us now so i can get a refund right the f now. most of us who put money into your game and FINANCED it (we are basicly your sugar daddy's in this case, (think long and hard if you want to **** that group off.) did so with the understanding this was going to be a "sim" version hell you guys even told us NO 3rd person
if you want to make this a casual game again tell us now so most of us can get our money back and forget about this giant fiasco

stop chasing the mythical casual player that would spend nothing on this game, and please start listening to the people who basicly payed your paycheck for the forseeable future when they dropped millions of dollars in your lap

honestly, thats what it all comes down to for me, you are in bussines because of US and as thanks we get a slap in the face with a big "we dont give a damn what you guys think or say" after we have clearly let our voices be heard collectivly and very loudly

ill say it again

NO 3rd PERSON

[Myrotvorec]

arkani

Quote

4) The switch for 1st and 3rd. This is probably the most important.
This is a "can of worms". I will give one example.
TeamA of players decide they will play in 3rd.
TeamB of players decide they will play in 1st.
They all play Community warfare. They end up on opposite sides of a match.
So how will this be solved? Will the game be played in 1st or 3rd? Which team will choose?
Will one team be forced into a game mode they don't want and are not good at?
Or again, will you split them, thus creating two very different community warfare timelines?

This is a very good question.
The factions and future clans will fight on the galactic map?
One chooses 1D other 3D.
Developers are driving themselves into a corner and along with most of the players are pulling that voted against 3D.
Believe me you will suffer not the children money and youth 21 to 35 years. We are against 3D and all discussion is empty.

[Biruke]

3d person view? how do you think playing it? Just staring at your mech 5 meters? Can you see anything else?

[grayson marik]

Agent of Change, on 29 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

...
Why should 3PV be implemented, is it actually needed and why?
Can the things 3PV is supposed to be needed for be resolved in other manners that adhere to the current asthetic and play style of the game, can we maintain the integrity of the 1PV only concept the devs were championing not long ago and fix what ever issues are being predicted?

These are they key questions, I agree.
Most of them have been answered by community posts days, sometimes month's in the past...not necessary to mention those answers where without 3pv mostly ;-)

Vexgrave Lars, on 29 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

MW Living Legends has a great 3rd person view... if anyone is interested.

No you're right.. thats not funny.

Please don't, except in spectator mode, once you figured out how to keep the dead silent to the living.

Just let the pilot live through his dead ( Space for eye candy here ) and place him as spectator 10 - 15 sec after what he sees took place.
And thus, all his yelling on voice will be worthless.

arkani, on 29 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Russ Bullock was interviewed in a new nogutsnogalaxy podcast.
Interview can be heard here on the NoGustNoGalaxy podcast


Summing up the interview.
Russ says that he is a 1st person guy.. but he has changed is mind about 3rd person in this game.
Why?
He says that in previous Mechwarrior games, stats indicate that the split was 50% 1st and 50% 3rd person players, and that this is hard to ignore from a developers point of view.
He says that the core players do not want 3rd person, but if they want to grow the game they have to consider it.

They want all the core Mechwarrior players to come and play the game, but also want new players and that those players are used to 3rd person.
Says that new players have trouble with the mechanics of the mech ( torso, legs twisting, etc), its difficult to them, because there used to shooters. Also they want to see there mech.
Also says that every one should "train" in 3rd person, think of it has training mode.

The dev's are considering the option to switch 1st and 3rd person in the matchmaking. So if you don't want to play against 3rd person it will be a toggle in the matchmaking and avoid 3rd person.
It will be a player option. So effectively we can choose with view will be accepted in a match via this matchmaking feature/option.

Previous threads and poll on this subject and BETTER suggestions on the subject

My opinion on this is:

1) The switch for 1st and 3rd.( This is probably the most important.)
This is a "can of worms". I will give one example and it will suffice.
TeamA of players decide they will play in 3rd.
TeamB of players decide they will play in 1st.
They all play Community warfare. They end up on opposite sides of a match.
So how will this be solved? Will the game be played in 1st or 3rd? Which team will choose?
Will one team be forced into a game mode they don't want and are not good at?
Or again, will you split them, thus creating two very different community warfare timelines?

2) Previous games stats for 3rd person.
They are considering this because of stats in previous Mechwarrior games. (So that's were this all came from!!)
This is flawed from the start. Why?
Those games had 3rd person. As stated in previous threads, 3rd person gives a very big tactical advantage in a game. Therefore you had to play 3rd person just to be competitive. If the other team was using 3rd person and you did not, you were in a disadvantage. Therefore you were forced to also play 3rd person, so you upped the stats for 3rd person because it was shoved down your throat.
I played mechwarrior 4 online and yes, i was forced into 3rd person, until i finally just gave up playing. It became a game of pop tarting/jj-snipping behind hills. One tactic for every situation. It sucked.
So i ask, if the other games, on which you are basing your stats, sucked and failed why the hell are you doing the same mistakes they made?
This game need its own identity. It cannot carter to all. It hard to master and that is the main reason its fun and people stick with it. It is challenging.

3) Grow the game.
Yes, we all understand that. The game needs needs players for you to make money and keep adding to the game and for us players to have even more people to play with. We all want more and new players.
Giving them 3rd person is not the way. Why?
If a new players comes into the game and plays a few matches in 3rd person and likes it he will want to join a team/house. He will want to play i n community warfare. But because community is all about Mechwarrior mentality role play it will be, most probably 1st person, so this new 3rd person player will not now how to play 1st person, it will frustrate him.
Frustrate players usually don't stick around, the game will loose players.
Has stated in previous threads we will split the player base into two games: 1st and 3rd.

4) Player experience.
Again, read the previous threads. Improving the player experience suggestions are plenty, all of them better than 3rd person "crucht".

I believe that this subject will either make or break the game.

While you kind of misunderstood the matchmaking aspect, overall there is one question arising out of this podcast:

Do they really think they can get a bigger chunk of WoT players over here and make them stay as paying customers than the chunk of paying players they will loose from us at the same time by implementing 3pv?

Are they really that short sighted?

Oh, oh well, 2 questions...

[Stone Wall]

3rd person did not kill MechWarrior 3 or MechWarrior 4.

3rd person will not kill MechWarrior Online.

It will only make people not backwalk with LRMs as much.

[StraferX]

N0, not a good idea, 3rd person is a great idea for spectator mode and single player but when operating your bot KEP it 1st person only.

[Yuba Frank]

I paid good money for a Legendary Founder Pack to support this game. Look at the numbers on the poll. Overwhelming, landslide vote, against 3rd Person View. I think that says what your direction needs to be right there.

I paid for, and expected, a first person view 'mech sim with community warfare.

Or did you forget you made this post/statement?

http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

Edited by Yuba Frank, 30 November 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[Hidran]

Thing is, most of the people who want third person are more laid back and don't feel the need to get on the forums and talk about it.
And please keep the idea for a separate arcade like game mode with third person only.

[Thomas Covenant]

Yes
No
No opinion
Im indifferent

I feel like No opinion and Im indifferent should be merged.

If there was an option like "maybe, but also explore alternatives" I might vote for that. I see after the recent podcast there's a lot of good reasons for it, yet I don't know it would make me vote "yes" to the question "Does MWO need or should have 3rd person". I think it could be profitable and would help expand the game. I also think some alternatives like a 3d doll representation would go far too show what's happening, whether or not they finally add 3rd p.

To reiterate I'd like to see
• No opinion and Im indifferent merged
• Add "maybe, but also explore alternatives"

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 30 November 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[BlackBeltJones]

Zeh, on 14 November 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

And have **** multiplayer because of it.

Those are not Mech games nor games dear to the MW community that has existed since the 90's.

[PineappleKush]

Kribson, on 14 November 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

They should absolutley introduce 3rd person for the people that have problems steering their mech. Moreover there should be an option to activate an aim bot for people having problems with that. Another great idea would be a to add an infinite ammo and armor mode, cause i noticed some people find it difficult to evade enemy fire...

Whatever you do...in the end the game should become as boring and least challenging as possible

This hits the nail on the head. Plus the vote stats speak for themselves (not that much stock should or can be put into stupid forum polls such as this). New players need to learn the "difficult" feature of their legs moving independently from their arms/torso. I played Mechwarrior 2: 31st Century Combat back when I was 8 and was able to figure it out, so if you're too stupid to get the hang of it and get frustrated, please just quit or put your try-hard hat on and learn to play. You don't get gold coins here for sucking. Maybe play Angry Birds or Solitaire. We don't need another least common denominator game like World of Warcraft et al have become.

All the first post is is an advertisement for NGNG podcasts, masquerading as something super serial.

You people that want this need to consider that everything PGI does costs them money through development time (both of which, development time and money, are finite resources and in PGIs case, extremely limited). Regardless of how simple something seems, it's going to take some paid programmer time to implement it, which is time and money not being spent on things that matter, like making 8 man groups work again, fixing bugs, and making matchmaking not suck for everyone that isn't in a group. Get the priorities straight. Stop making podcasts, stop making really, really bad wallpapers, and start working on the queue of issues that exist right now that are breaking the game.

Edited: because I don't know how to spell, also fixed the math on how old I was when MW2 was released. 8 years old and was able to comprehend my legs moving independent from my torso. If you're 40+ and can't figure it out, see my above recommendation.

Edited by PineappleKush, 30 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Xelvod]

Im not for 3[color=#333333]rd Person....But b[/color][color=#333333]est idea will be if they make new component for Mech, something like flying drone with camera. That you can shot in the air, and it will give 3rd Person perspective. But also it can be destroyed.[/color]

Edited by Xelvod, 30 November 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[PineappleKush]

Xelvod, on 30 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Im not for 3[color=#333333]rd Person....But b[/color][color=#333333]est idea will be if they make new component for Mech, something like flying drone with camera. That you can shot in the air, and it will give 3rd Person perspective. But also it can be destroyed.[/color]

Or you can rely on your situational awareness and your teammate communication to figure out where the enemy is. You can also use your brain to figure out how your mech is oriented. Another idea that will cost development time, not solve any issues, and likely introduce a plethora of new bugs that will need fixed later. No.

Edited by PineappleKush, 30 November 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[DraigUK]

As per the latest NGNG interview, get used to it. It's coming. They don't really give a hoot about what we think on this matter.

Where I think they are oh so wrong though is in the following :-

1 - the only reason previous incarnations were 50/50 was because it gave you an advantage. If your ensuring this advantage will not happen then the only people using it will be a tiny amount of players, so it's a waste of time and resource.

2 - if your making it a matchmaker choice, then your splitting the community into those who play 3rd person and those who play 1st person. What happens in Community Warfare when 1st persons views want to take a planet from people who only play 3rd person? You going to force one or the other? Or are you going to make two separate Community Warfare maps? If so this again splits the community, wasting more time and resources.

3- This is not the reason people don't play (new people to MW). They don't play because the new players experience is horrible, there are too many bugs and crashes, too many suiciders/exploiters, no in game tutorial etc etc. I refuse point blank to believe there are a significant number of potential new players who will not play because they can't see their mech from the outside or are simply too braindead to learn how to move in one direction while looking in another. Tutorial solves this much better.

4 - I detest the way you assume us "core players" will play no matter what you do to this game. I bought founder and play under the impression this game is going to be different from WoT and different from other FPS shooters. Not WoT with mechs.Not CoD with robots.Dumb it down enough to be similar enough to those and I know I'll lose interest, because that isn't what I'm looking for. I do NOT want to play a simplistic dumbed down game, I want to play mechwarrior.


Yeah I get why your going to do this. But your oh so wrong to do so. And ignoring the core players on this issue, especially if you get it wrong (and let's face it you get things wrong PLENTY of times so far) is really dancing on thin ice.

But here is the final bit from me. I simply no longer care all that much what you do. Which is sad in itself. My expectations are pretty low at the moment, so I've entered a state of apathy about it all. Do what you will, if it doesn't work for me I'll simply stop paying and playing, and move on wishing you all the best.

[Barden]

The single and most coherent reason not to do 3rd person is FOR new players. If anyone else played MW4 and was gang sniped by a decent team you know what I'm talking about. If you get some teams utilizing 3rd person correctly noobs/non clanners will end up leaving the game because they were group sniped by a bunch of 3rd person jump mechs with gauss and killed or crippled instantly. Trust me it kills the spirit of competition seeing OVER a hill while not being exposed is complete BS. Don't even go with a choice. It's plain and simple. NO.

Note - I used to use 3rd person....only because of its advantage and possibility of evening the playing field.

[anonymous175]

3rd person should only be in if its like 3rd person in LoL.

[Shredhead]

Stone Wall, on 30 November 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

3rd person did not kill MechWarrior 3 or MechWarrior 4.

3rd person will not kill MechWarrior Online.

It will only make people not backwalk with LRMs as much.

No, it was extreme min/max builds and 3rd person that ruined MW3 and MW4 multiplayer. Outside of the campaigns these games were awful!