17 replies to this topic

[Mistwolf]

So I was looking at my old TT stuff and I came to a jarring realization.
Some of the cannon mechs are impossible, critically speaking.

What I mean is, look at the AWS-9M Awesome, he simply does not have the critical space to fit 10 double heat sinks
the same is true with the:
MDG-1A Rakshasa
BZR-A3 Berserker
T-IT-N10M Grand Ttian
BL9-KNT Black Knight (clanbuster version)
and others

Usually this has to do with FF armour and Endosteel when mixed with multiple double heat sinks. In a few cases It seems the just "leave out" 2 DHS on the crit chart.

Did I miss something? or were the designers of these mechs just not paying attention? And if they are "cheating", what is you opinion on this?

[El Loco]

XL engines can store more than 10 DHS, so that could be one reason for the missing DHS on the charts... and it is the reason in the AWS-9M and the MDG-1A

[Evex]

Actually the AWS-9M Awesome gets an engine upgrade the regular awesome by its technical readouts uses a standard fusion engine rated at 240, which gives it a walk of 3, and run of 5. AWS-9M uses a XL engine rated at 320, which gives it a walk of 4 and run of 6. To say the larger engine stores three more heat sinks leaving only eight double heat sinks to be distributed inside the AWS-9M model.

[Mistwolf]

I've never seen anything saying XL engines come with any more than the standard 10 HS (single or double).
Besides the MDG-1A is missing like 5 HS not just 2 (15 crit worth)

[Hayashi]

I remember playing the most updated version of MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries and seeing different amounts of heat sinks added to the engines of the chassis. It's what made the Flashman and Awesome particularly well, awesome, for energy-intensive builds.

[RedDragon]

The Awesome 9M has 12 of its heat sinks in its engine. How many HSs fit into the engine is determined by the size of it, but it's not limited to the 10 HSs that come with it.

[Evex]

Mistwolf, on 27 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I've never seen anything saying XL engines come with any more than the standard 10 HS (single or double).
Besides the MDG-1A is missing like 5 HS not just 2 (15 crit worth)

The way it works is the larger the engine is the more heat sinks it will fit into it. Taking the regular awesome an example for a second here. The stock awesome has an standard fusion engine rated at 240 with eighteen single heat sinks. With a 240 engine eight of those heat sinks are stored with the engine leaving nine to be distributed through out the mech. Now upgrade that same engine to a 320 standard fusion engine and you have 12 of those heat sinks stored in the engine with six to distribute through out the mech. The problem is a larger engine is heavier, so there is less tonnage for weapons.

[Mistwolf]

Perhaps in a Mechwarrior they went a bit off cannon, but as I said, I have never seen anything in the TROs or the Compendium suggesting that different engine sizes ever provide different amounts of base HS.
As I said, I may have missed something and if so, please tell me where, but please don't just assume that it just "must work" because it has never been pointed out before.

[DocBach]

Raskhasa has a 375 rated XL engine, which is very large - it fits five additional heat sinks in the reactor for a total of 15.

A caveat to this is OmniMechs - if the base configuration has 10 heat sinks in the engine, and an alternate configuration adds heat sinks, even if the reactor can fit more heat sinks they have to be assigned critical locations.

[RedDragon]

Mistwolf, on 27 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Perhaps in a Mechwarrior they went a bit off cannon, but as I said, I have never seen anything in the TROs or the Compendium suggesting that different engine sizes ever provide different amounts of base HS.
As I said, I may have missed something and if so, please tell me where, but please don't just assume that it just "must work" because it has never been pointed out before.

Battletech TechManual, page 53
A mech has a number of "critical-free" heat sinks. To get that number, divide the engine rating by 25 and round down. Those heat sinks are part of the engine.

Edit: The math for the Awesome 9M: Engine rating 320 divided by 25 = 12,8, rounded down = 12 crit-free heat sinks.

Edited by RedDragon, 27 April 2012 - 11:47 AM.

[Thorolf Kylesson]

RedDragon, on 27 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Battletech TechManual, page 53
A mech has a number of "critical-free" heat sinks. To get that number, divide the engine rating by 25 and round down. Those heat sinks are part of the engine.

Edit: The math for the Awesome 9M: Engine rating 320 divided by 25 = 12,8, rounded down = 12 crit-free heat sinks.

Damn. Beat me to it.

[Mistwolf]

RedDragon, on 27 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Battletech TechManual, page 53
A mech has a number of "critical-free" heat sinks. To get that number, divide the engine rating by 25 and round down. Those heat sinks are part of the engine.

Edit: The math for the Awesome 9M: Engine rating 320 divided by 25 = 12,8, rounded down = 12 crit-free heat sinks.

Which edition?
Admittedly I was using older stuff (the 3rd edition book and the Battletech Compendium: The Rules of Warfare) and neither said anything like that. could that have been changed in a later edition?

[RedDragon]

Newest (current) edition. But the rule has been there. It's also in my old copy of the Battletech Master Rules from 1998.

[Mistwolf]

RedDragon, on 27 April 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Newest (current) edition. But the rule has been there. It's also in my old copy of the Battletech Master Rules from 1998.

Ah there we go. It's new. Mine is from 1992 and 1994. This was even before the "unseen" were... well the Unseen. That makes sense now. They likely updated the rules. Not that I'm complaining, more space is pretty sweet.

[Hayashi]

Any idea what this Engine Rating affects, besides critical-free heat sinks? Like, is there some formula to convert ER into speed?

[Mistwolf]

Your Tonnage x walking speed = Engine rating

ie. 75 tonnes x 4 walk = 300 rating

Edited by Mistwolf, 27 April 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[RedDragon]

Mistwolf, on 27 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Your Tonnage x walking speed = Engine rating

ie. 75 tonnes x 4 walk = 300 rating

That and the engine rating determines the weight of the engine itself. In the case of our Awesome, that would be 11,5 tons for a XL-engine (22,5 for a standard one).

[Monky]

It has to do with engine sizes.... it's all very tricky, but an 64 KPH engine vs a 54 KPH engine can store more heatsinks, because its storage is based on the size of the engine, not the type. HOWEVER, since a 64 KPH XL engine is the same weight as a 54 KPH engine for the Awesome (80 tonner), you effectively get to cheat a little bit.

You can check it out here if you want; http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab
It took me a while to grasp why heatsinks where so wonky on this mechbuilder, but that's the reason. Engine size is hax.