13 replies to this topic

[sideshow]

Right now I feel like the pilot skills are pretty uninteresting. They all provide a marginal performance increase, and aside from picking the heat management ones first, all you do is click on them when you have the xp. They don't require any thought, and don't provide any excitment or variety during play. They seem a lot like speed-bumps. What I'd prefer is this:

1) Make every skill a lot more potent, such that it makes a noticable difference during play

2) Restrict the number of skills you can have active at one time. This could be a simple constant (3 is probably good), or have it gradually unlock as the pilot improves: they start with 1, and as they advance they unlock more slots, up to a max of 3 or maybe 4. Possibly you could have the slots open up as you rank up more variants of the same mech.

3) All skills go in these slots. Once you get to Elite you have to remove a Basic skill to add an Elite one. Perhaps you'd need to restrict the number of Elites, or have them cost more per slot? Maybe have different slots per skill tier, with normals going from 1-4, elites going from 1-2, etc.

This should result in mechs on the field having noticably (though not exaggeratedly) different performances. Do you want a really fast mech? Spec for speed. Rather have more firepower? Equip all the heat management instead.

To sum up: make the skills a lot punchier, make people choose.

[RedHairDave]

i dont like the idea of a mech that has been run alot, being better by a noticeable margin to one that is fresh. seems like there would be balance problems. the way it is now, even in a fresh bought mech, i dont fee like im at a disadvantage

[Galenit]

I have though over this too ...
Me idea is to make it, that your chooses make a difference, so different builds are possible. The issue i see is to make it balanced.

I suggest to make it more like following:

Base Skills in 5 Tiers, you can choose 15 tiers over all baseskills, 10 baseskills unlock eliteskills.
Tier1 cost 1000xp, tier2 1500, tier3 2000, tier4 2500, tier5 3000

Eliteskills in 4 tiers, you can choose 10 tier over all eliteskills, 7 will unlock masterskills.
Tier1 cost 2000xp, Tier2 3000xp, Tier3 4000xp, Tier4 5000xp.

Masterskills in 3 tiers, you can choose 5 tiers over all masterskills.
Tier1 cost 5000, Tier2 10000, Tier3 15000

Specialskills in all levels without tiers, but with increased xp-cost. The Modulslot is an example for a master specialskill that will cost 25000xp.

If there is interest to discuss this system, i will post some examples for possible skilltrees.
I thought abaut a system with skills for all mechs, skills for weightclasses, mechtypes and mechmodells. Some skills, like anchorturn are in different skilllevels for weightclasses (light+medium=base, heavy=elite, assault=master. Its seems logical, a 35t mech turning with an anchor is easier than turning a 100t mech with an anchor. But its also logical, that an assaultmech can contain more heat then a light, so for heatcontainmend assult=base, light=master. And so on.

But this will possible need a complete reset for going out of beta to be fair to all players.

The Tiers shouldnt be much more better then the actual system. Coolrun will bring 1,5% per tier as baseskill and 2,5% as masterskill, both ways it will stay the 7,5% its actual. But you can choose for the full effect or just take a little of this and the rest of some other skill. And its a possible way for the devs to finetune balance, heatcontainment und coolrun are a goodway to make the lights a little worser and give the heavys a way to deal with ppcs without doubleheatsinks, where they have no room for, as example.

Hope you understand what i want to say, english is not my native language.

Edited by Galenit, 14 November 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[sideshow]

RedHairDave, on 14 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

i dont like the idea of a mech that has been run alot, being better by a noticeable margin to one that is fresh. seems like there would be balance problems. the way it is now, even in a fresh bought mech, i dont fee like im at a disadvantage

I've never unlocked it, but I get the impression that the module slot will give a significant advantage in the current system, no? And it's even more elitist, since it needs so much time/effort to get to.

[Galenit]

I forgot something:
The skillsystem with different tiers and chooses is a way for the devs to make money. Respec for MC anybody?

[cmopatrick]

sideshow, on 14 November 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I've never unlocked it, but I get the impression that the module slot will give a significant advantage in the current system, no? And it's even more elitist, since it needs so much time/effort to get to.

that is an extra slot. you already have at least one (well, i have not been in a mech yet that didn't). right now they have a VERY short list of modules for use in these slots: sensor info, cap accel, and the (rhymes with "rap") "zoom". almost no one makes a big deal about getting one... but once they populate the pilot modules with better options, you will want it... trust me (no, wait , isn't "trust me" what she said before... (sigh)).

Edited by cmopatrick, 14 November 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[Ceribus]

I would like to see some more flavour type skills, like mechanic "while powered down you slowly repair damage to mech internals" Obviously this would not fix you mech's armour and it would not activate when forced to power down from overheating. Another interesting skill could be an "active ping" it's a skill that adds a component to you weapon loadout that when activated sends out a radar ping that shows everyone within 300M, this is one ping, it does not update with movement and the signals fade away again after 3 seconds.

[RedHairDave]

sideshow, on 14 November 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I've never unlocked it, but I get the impression that the module slot will give a significant advantage in the current system, no? And it's even more elitist, since it needs so much time/effort to get to.

almost totally useless right now really, there isnt a module that is critical. i like the spotting one, knowing where the weak spots are slightly faster is an advantage i like having, but its so minimal, knowing where to shoot 25% faster, assuming there is a weak spot at all. so a situational bonus some times.

[sycocys]

Knowing the load out of the mech your about to engage before they know yours can be insanely significant in the outcome of your duel. It can change your approach to dealing with them quite a bit especially when it comes to something like a Gauss cat vs. a Streak Cat.

All that aside - I do see room for tweaks to the system, but the difference to me is quite noticeable in most of the skills and more so in the first set after you master them - it really makes a difference in your tracking ability. At the end of the day I would like to so more of a variety so that all mechs had something that worked for them, but I don't want to see the skills earned by repetition outweigh skill in-game to a point that it ruins the balance for newer players or seasoned players in new chassis'.

[Elyam]

As a MW gamemaster from the start, I am in favor of a robust skill system for MWO. The idea is to allow many varied choices with selection limits that encourages uniqueness, customizability, and the challenge and fun of achievement. Superior text descriptions related to battletechnology and the BT universe are critical. Simple incremental, fractional number increases will not work.

Field benefits needs to be realistic for BT. For example, a MechWarrior can't, in the midst of an encounter, repair internal structure or armor. But if a single system takes a simple hit (a one-critical-space hit), a skill that would allow the pilot to shut down for 1 minute and have a chance to repair a system could be interesting. This represents the same thing we can do with the MW TT RPG: the pilot is trying to use his tech skill to quickly reroute power, run a bypass, reprogram, even change small parts in efforts to make that emergency repair. A higher level version of the skill might allow this repair attempt to occur a minute or two after the damage was taken but without shutting down.

There are countless skills, resources, contacts, benefits, etc. that could be developed in MWO even just for the match battle system we have now. As the Inner Sphere meta-game is added and evolved (I pray it will be so) a truly rich character development can be added. And for those players who couldn't give a rodent's butt about anything but raw play and numbers, this still gives them an achievement system that matters to their play success.

And of course, you keep players longer with well-implemented achievement systems, and some parts of it requiring MC would be a natural addition since MWO needs to be profitable.

Edited by Elyam, 14 November 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[sideshow]

I agree with you Elyam - I'd love to seem some meatier skills. What they have just now are the bare-bones kind, would be good to have some more interesting abilities (provided you could only have a small number active at one time). I can think of a few similar examples:

Highlander:
Mech takes half damage from falling. (they'd need to implement Death-From-Above to make this good )

Bull:
Mech has a chance to knock down other mechs (proportional to size difference)

Stalwart:
Mech cannot be knocked down.

[Noth]

The mech skills are not meant to diversify. they are meant to be small boosts to your mech representing pushing it to it's limits. The actual pilot skills and the modules they unlock is where the diversity comes in. Each mech can only bring so many modules thus you have to choose which modules to bring. This allows specialization while maintain your ability to be flexible.

[Jadel Blade]

Noth, on 15 November 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

The mech skills are not meant to diversify. they are meant to be small boosts to your mech representing pushing it to it's limits. The actual pilot skills and the modules they unlock is where the diversity comes in. Each mech can only bring so many modules thus you have to choose which modules to bring. This allows specialization while maintain your ability to be flexible.

We already know what it is now and its at best bland and boring. Personally I think its completely pointless in its current form. After X amount of time (where X is a pretty small number) every single mech on the field is exactly the same. You may as well just scrap the entire thing and boost every mech to the skilled up levels at the start, it would make very little difference.

The specifics of it are open for debate, I quite like some of the suggestions so far, but the main thing that needs to change is that you shouldnt be able to have every single skill unlocked. There needs to be a choice made.

Do I want speed, firepower, armor, heat efficiency etc.

Perhaps you can choose only one, perhaps you can mix and match but in doing so not reach the same levels as someone who specialises.

Possibly make it alot broader in scope. Make each of those 4 aspects have their own skill tree with the master skill at the bottom.

Like I say , theres alot of ways to make it a fun and rewarding system but they have chosen pretty much the only way you could do it that is pointless.

The only problem I see with a system like this is how to justify it within the constraints of BT canon. I have no reasonable answer for that other than breaking canon hasnt been an obstacle elsewhere in the game.

[Noth]

Jadel Blade, on 15 November 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

We already know what it is now and its at best bland and boring. Personally I think its completely pointless in its current form. After X amount of time (where X is a pretty small number) every single mech on the field is exactly the same. You may as well just scrap the entire thing and boost every mech to the skilled up levels at the start, it would make very little difference.

The specifics of it are open for debate, I quite like some of the suggestions so far, but the main thing that needs to change is that you shouldnt be able to have every single skill unlocked. There needs to be a choice made.

Do I want speed, firepower, armor, heat efficiency etc.

Perhaps you can choose only one, perhaps you can mix and match but in doing so not reach the same levels as someone who specialises.

Possibly make it alot broader in scope. Make each of those 4 aspects have their own skill tree with the master skill at the bottom.

Like I say , theres alot of ways to make it a fun and rewarding system but they have chosen pretty much the only way you could do it that is pointless.

The only problem I see with a system like this is how to justify it within the constraints of BT canon. I have no reasonable answer for that other than breaking canon hasnt been an obstacle elsewhere in the game.

They don't want you to be stuck specializing. That is what will happen. All this will promote is cookie cutter builds. Also seeing as they will be adding in variant specific stats such as torso twist ranges, speeds and others, not all mechs end up the same. Further, none of the mechs are the same now as the they are effected to different lengths by the increases. The mech trees are also not designed to give any major advantage so specialization would be pointless in them. THis is good from a competitive standpoint. They are simply there as a progression goal. The real customization and uniqueness ins in the Pilot skills and modules which allows such specialization due to the module system. It just is not all in the game and it takes longer to access.