14 replies to this topic

[Baldwin Chang]

How Animal Planet can, in good conscious produce a show glorifying terrorists and criminals like Sea Shepherd is beyond me. These guys are terrorists interfering with legal practices that carry great cultural import for the people who perform them. Why Paul Watson and his band of thugs aren't behind bars baffles my brain.

I just wanted to get more input from people other than my close friends. Anyone have any thoughts on Sea Shepherd and the moral implications of their glorification by Discovery Communications?

[MamasToy]

The best part of the season that I watched was when the Japanese chopped the nose off that little bitc# ship.

[Helmer]

I'm not informed enough to make an opinionated post on Sea Shepherd, Paul Watson's "Band of Thugs", or Animal Planet's glorifying terrorists.

As this was correctly posted in the Jettison Communication , and it appears the OP might genuinely be looking for feedback, I'm not going to take any action right now.

Topics like these have a tendency to rage out of control quickly. Lets all please be mindful of our posting etiquette and have a constructive, respectful thread.




Thanks lads and lasses, carry on.



Cheers.

[Kell Wolf]

The way I see it, both the fishermen and the sea Shepherds exist in a state of grayness. I don't believe either is fully in the right and I can see both ways. The one good thing the Shepherds are doing is stopping Japanese whalers who are purposely going against the ban on killing whales under the guise of research. Whales are an endangered species, and removing any species from an ecosystem is a bad Idea.

Just my 2 cents take it as it is.

[Baldwin Chang]

Aye, but not ALL whales are endangered. Take their new series Whale Wars: Viking Shores. The group is out to stop whale hunts by the local population of the Faroe Islands. The pilot whales hunted by the Faroese are not endangered and their hunts are completely legal. For Sea Shepherd to take the law into their own hands and for Animal Planet to (i'm using that word again) glorify it is wrong on so many levels.

[Catamount]

Jeremiah Mint, on 28 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

How Animal Planet can, in good conscious produce a show glorifying terrorists and criminals like Sea Shepherd is beyond me. These guys are terrorists interfering with legal practices that carry great cultural import for the people who perform them. Why Paul Watson and his band of thugs aren't behind bars baffles my brain.

I just wanted to get more input from people other than my close friends. Anyone have any thoughts on Sea Shepherd and the moral implications of their glorification by Discovery Communications?

I don't, myself, agree with many of the actions of this group, but this is an incredibly one-sided presentation of the issue. "Legal practices that carry great cultural import for the people who perform them"? That doesn't remotely begin to address the grievance this group has with those activities, and it kind of sounds like you've already made up your mind without even considering both sides of the issue.

Take Japanese whaling for instance. The Japanese claim that it's primarily for scientific research (they actually call it "research whaling"), but everyone, including the US government, has repeatedly pointed out that Japanese research could be conducted without killing whales, and it's very widely agreed upon, but governments and scientists alike that this is little more than thinly disguised commercial whaling. So rather than a "legitimate activity", the Japanese are undertaking a very illegal activity, under the guise of a legitimate activity, targetting many species are were critically endangered before those bans were put in place, like the humpback whale, which was reduced from 200,000 to an estimated mere 700 individuals, bans the Japanese now flagrantly violate with little more than the courtesy of a nudge and a wink.

I still don't agree with what Sea Shepard does, in part because they make it harder for conservation organizations to operate without association with those activities, but these are hardly legitimate activities, as you imply. They are, in fact, very thinly veiled illegal, and ecologically harmful activities.


Note that I do recognize that they operate in multiple areas, so even to what extent this applies as rationalization (if not justification), it may not apply to what they do, everwhere.

Edited by Catamount, 28 April 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Kell Wolf]

Jeremiah Mint, on 28 April 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Aye, but not ALL whales are endangered. Take their new series Whale Wars: Viking Shores. The group is out to stop whale hunts by the local population of the Faroe Islands. The pilot whales hunted by the Faroese are not endangered and their hunts are completely legal. For Sea Shepherd to take the law into their own hands and for Animal Planet to (i'm using that word again) glorify it is wrong on so many levels.

I agree there current series is kind of a wonder, they have no reason to be there, they are not endangered and they aren't killing enough of them to make a difference. Yes, in my point of view it is barbaric killing whales in that fashion, but that's just my point a view and not a direct indicator of legality. But then again as long as the shepherds don't do anything illegal, I don't see why they can't be there either. Once again they are in a very grey area.

Once again my 2 cents, take with a grain of salt.

[Baldwin Chang]

Catamount, on 28 April 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I don't, myself, agree with many of the actions of this group, but this is an incredibly one-sided presentation of the issue. "Legal practices that carry great cultural import for the people who perform them"? That doesn't remotely begin to address the grievance this group has with those activities, and it kind of sounds like you've already made up your mind without even considering both sides of the issue.

Take Japanese whaling for instance. The Japanese claim that it's primarily for scientific research (they actually call it "research whaling"), but everyone, including the US government, has repeatedly pointed out that Japanese research could be conducted without killing whales, and it's very widely agreed upon, but governments and scientists alike that this is little more than thinly disguised commercial whaling. So rather than a "legitimate activity", the Japanese are undertaking a very illegal activity, under the guise of a legitimate activity, targetting many species are were critically endangered before those bans were put in place, like the humpback whale, which was reduced from 200,000 to an estimated mere 700 individuals, bans the Japanese now flagrantly violate with little more than the courtesy of a nudge and a wink.

I still don't agree with what Sea Shepard does, in part because they make it harder for conservation organizations to operate without association with those activities, but these are hardly legitimate activities, as you imply. They are, in fact, very thinly veiled illegal, and ecologically harmful activities.


Note that I do recognize that they operate in multiple areas, so even to what extent this applies as rationalization (if not justification), it may not apply to what they do, everwhere.

While my argument is directed more towards their actions against populations that have legal authority to hunt certain animals due to cultural reasons (the Faroese, the Inuits and other far northern native tribes ect. ect.) and while I don't personally agree with some of the reasons cited by the Japanese government as justification for their actions, that doesn't change the fact that Sea Shepherd is a terrorist organization that utilizes tactics damaging or potentially damaging to both people and property.

Also many, including a former close associate of Watson and captain of one of Sea Shepherds sunken vessels claim that the leadership of Sea Shepherd routinely manufacture or otherwise inflate the severity of certain events supposedly done to Sea Shepherd members such as the supposed shooting of Sea Shepherd founder Watson by Japanese whalers. or the supposed sinking of the MY Ady Gil by the Japanese whaling ship MV Shōnan Maru 2(The former captain of the Ady Gil has claimed that Watson ordered him to scuttle the vessel after the collision in order to generate public support Sea Shepherd.)

Edited by Jeremiah Mint, 28 April 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[Patrio Sioux Daltum]

While there are few amounts of whales that are actually endangered, their numbers can be sensitive at times. The Japanese are highly dependent upon the sea for most of their food needs(Their population is over half the US's compressed in an area smaller than California) but I just can't agree with killing sharks for shark fin cookies. That said, neither do I agree with using your ship as a battering ram.

[Catamount]

"Terrorist organization" is possibly a poor term to use, in part because to this day, there doesn't seem to be a decent definition of what a "terrorist" actually is, beyond whatever certain governments decide it means today.

Personally, I think they do more harm than good to their own cause, and as an ecology major, that irks me more than a bit, but dealing with sometimes-legitimate greivances badly still means having legitimate greivances.


So I guess at worst, you could call them well-intentioned, but misguided extremists.

Edited by Catamount, 28 April 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[pursang]

I have to agree with Catamount on this one: I don't believe the Sea Shepperd's direct goal is to cause terror i.e. terrorism, however I cannot condone their use of such extreme methods of "protest". You just end up making your organization look like a pack of violent extremists - and that can only drive away support that they may have otherwise garnered from other means.

[Insidious Johnson]

They aren't terrorists. They are at least vandals operating under idealistic license who both use and skirt the law simultaneously to achieve their ends. There lies the problem. At heart, they believe the ends justify any means. It is a road to terrorism. Best possible solution is amend the whaling ban to exclude research and start sinking japanese whaling vessels in international waters.... after sinking the Sea Shepard, of course. Also, if they claim primary citizenship to "earth" we are free to deport them anywhere, as doing so is a form of renunciation of current citizenship status. Radical leftist hippies should be held to their own variable double standards, not to the standards of whatever form of government they are currently trying to subvert, since they already consider themselves outside/above of the law and accept legal standards ONLY when they achieve desired ends.

Edited by Insidious Johnson, 28 April 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Seal9]

Well, here is my say.

As more people have said. Sea Shepperd is an organization that stands up where others back down. That Japan hunts whales for scientific reasons is just bull. Anyone knows that they hunt because of the food and not because of science. Japan knows that because they are not allowed to commercially hunt the whales. Because no one and I mean noone is doing anything about that fact the Sea Shepperd organization steps in to adhere the illigal hunt on the whales. Just talking about Japan here now ok. Sea Shepperd is in my eyes not a terrorist organization. Are they blowing up people? Are they shooting people? No, they are just trying to stop the whales by crossing their paths. Sometimes the ships collide, i've seen it. The actual incident of the Aby Gail was not the due to the Sea Shepperds. The engine went down on the Aby Gail and the Whalers deliberately rammed them. There is enough proof for that. If Sea Shepperd was guilty I would say differently but i've seen the pictures and video's and you can easily see it.

Even governments have to adhere the rules and since Japan is not doing that Sea Shepperd is trying to make a point by protecting the area around Antartica. In my view justified since no other government is doing that.

Now regarding the Faroer islands, have you seen what they do? They kill any pilot whales they can find, baby's, young borns, pregnant females. And you say its culture? Nah, that is crossing the line. I don't mind the native tribes to kill for their food supply because they have no other means to do so. Those people have a real culture. The Faroer islands are not like the real native people. They have their ways to get food and if you have read the story around the killings of the faroer islands then you know its tradition only. The way they do it is just wrong and that someone steps in to stop it is in my eyes great.

The seas are being over fished, specific species are getting extinct (Sharks being hunted for their finnes and tossed away like nothing, because of tradition and superstition, really?). We have to remember one thing, we are probably the youngest spiecies alive on this planet and we are slowly killing everything else.

Another great example: Do you know that Japan actually kills dolphins as well? Google Taiji dolphin killings. What they do is round up dolphins in a cove and they handpick a few of them out and sell them to the big aquaria to be trained. You know what happens with all the rest of them, including pregant females, younglings etc? They slaughter them. Do you think that is normal? I don't since dolphins are probably one of the smartest mamals alive. Japan doesn't care about the ocean otherwise they would have changed it.

But like I said, I don't mind the native tribes to do so for their food. They do not kill hundreds or thousands, they only kill what they need and thats how it should be. I am not defending Sea Shepperd here but I am definately condemming actions of Japan or the Faroer islands.

Well that was my say, yes I love the nature and I love the sea and I would fight for that.

ps. sorry if I miss spelled anything. It's 5 am at the moment.

[Exilyth]

I don't like sea shepard. Don't get me wrong, they're doing something against whalers, which is great, but for what they're doing, their methods and actions only have minimal impact. Also, I doubt operating semi large naval vessels for extended periods of time is very environment friendly.

If you want to stop whaling, you'e got to hit the whalers right where it hurts them most: their wallets.

[sarcasm] But, there's a problem: Organising info stands, raising public attention to the issue, protesting and similar methods wouldn't make for an exciting television series. [/sarcasm]

Edited by Exilyth, 29 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Gun Bear]

If the people from Sea Sheperd were to do what they do in territorial waters they'd be rounded up and charged. They barely keep from crossing the line to piracy. I understand they feel the need to take an active stance to defend what they see as majestic creatures but they do it in the most stupid possible way next to boarding ships armed with AK-47s and RPGs