68 replies to this topic

[Hikyuu]

So i finally got fed up with the whining, and decided 'fine, lets see what it's like to pug in a trial mech'.

i dropped in the Dragon 1N, mostly because it's fire support, which i'm comfortable with, but also because it's kind of the ugly duckling of all the mechs on MWO, it's too fast, underwhelming firepower, and low armor, it's sort of trying to be three mechs at once, and failing at them. perfect pug mech!

first match was snowballed, however i wasn't the first to die, and managed to land the second highest damage in my team with my measley 'useless' weapons everyone complains the pug mechs have. 60k

second match was far better, i managed to take down a mech of similar weight class and a busy bee streak jenner (i killed a custom mech? LIES!). 2/0, our team won.

third match i was with a 4 man lance and us 4 just pugging, scored two kills. ravens, managed to truck roll the entire army, almost everyone made a kill.

fourth match i was in Caustic, I was on water side and went right to watch the hill for my team, when i moved up to the caldera there it was, a Gauss Cat. pugs are already going 'OH NOES'. so i turned my LRMS and AC 5 on him, and tore out some back armor!. that got his attention, slowly he turned and ambled towards me, i ducked behind the caldera and sweeped around the edge, guessing where he might end up, i pop up to broadside him while he's not looking, and proceeded to dance.

using my letf arm, i would fire my AC5/medlas at him, then turn right and show him my bum arm, this aggrovated him, no juicy torso hits! so he tried to leg me to slow me down. after circling around him i managed to tear off all his CT armor before he legged me, still doing well, he starts to figure out my strategy and tries to time his shots to match my torso, I do him one better and figure 8 suddenly, throwing him off his timing. I nearly had him cored before his team was there to finish me off.

but the last match was the best! I somehow landed caustic again, and due to some sort of memory leak, i was at 4 FRAMES PER SECOND for atleast 2/3rds of the match, i ran around as much as i could and tried to take down targets of opportunity. i eventually downed a weakend Yen Lo Wang, to my giggling surprise as the lag soup churned so bad he died and i didnt even see the explosion. I then circled around to find a stock K2 and proceeded to beat the **** out of it as a Jenner F poured laser fire into my back (if i looked at him client would Seize). I murdered the Kat before the Jenner finally got me.

and for all those in the community ******** about the Trial Mechs bieng useless all i have to say to you is the most famous words in RPG history.

". . ."

(as a reminder, I'm typically in a 4G hunchback with 3 medlas and an AC20, i regularly make 1-2 kills a game and rarely exceed 4, my KD struggles around 2/1. so i'd be what you'd call an 'Average' pilot.)

QQing below:

Edited by Hikyuu, 31 October 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[Hikyuu]

shameless bump so others can see the true life stories of trial mechs

[Krivvan]

Corroborating evidence:

[Wingbreaker]

Naw, man. Dragons suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Dontchukno?

[AceTimberwolf]

I main a 1N and the Trial 1N isn't that bad. If i had to choose a trial mech it would be that one


My Main Dragon

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 31 October 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Krivvan]

AceTimberwolf, on 31 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

I main a 1N and the Trial 1N isn't that bad. If i had to choose a trial mech it would be that one


My Main Dragon

Wow, the PC gamer skin on the Dragon actually looks pretty awesome.

[Hikyuu]

Love that video son!

Doom Riders have a lot of folks who weren't founders, and we try to help them use the stock variants well. admittedly, they have a learning curve compared to a custom made mech (which is built more to suit you) however that's a game mechanic in MWO, learning the ropes by learning the different roles, weapons, and their damages.

If you can't do that, you're going to suck in a built mech just as much as a Trial, because you have no idea how any of the weapons work.

[EDMW CSN]

But but but but you haz Founder Tag and Founderz CBT experience ! IT'S UNFAIR OMG!!!!!

[Haeso]

The trial dragon doesn't have enough heatsinks to use any of it's three weapon types constantly. It's horrible. Are you trying to suggest because you can kill people with it, it's not horrible? I could kill people with a jenner and one MG, would that make it good?

Anecdotal "I can kill people in it" just means you killed people in it, it doesn't mean it's good, at all.

Hikyuu, on 31 October 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

Love that video son!

Doom Riders have a lot of folks who weren't founders, and we try to help them use the stock variants well. admittedly, they have a learning curve compared to a custom made mech (which is built more to suit you) however that's a game mechanic in MWO, learning the ropes by learning the different roles, weapons, and their damages.

If you can't do that, you're going to suck in a built mech just as much as a Trial, because you have no idea how any of the weapons work.

The "Learning curve" means nothing, the extent of it is, hey, you have four weapons but you can only use one of the three weapon groups at a time or you'll overheat. The fact of the matter is that if the new players were given optimized trial 'mechs or the ability to customize them, they would do better.

Will a terrible player become a better player in a custom 'mech? Not unless it's a streak cat or LRM boat. And they certainly won't become good. But that's not what we're talking about, because even a bad player WILL do better in an optimized mech than a trial.

Edited by Haeso, 31 October 2012 - 01:36 AM.

[Hikyuu]

Wingbreaker, on 31 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Naw, man. Dragons suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Dontchukno?

this guy, this ******* guy, seriously ask this guy about trial dragons! i watched him take on THREE ATLASES with his dragon, admittedly he died, but he did it for almost HALF THE GAME!

please spread the word if you're reading this thread, lets break the trolls with truth and reality.

[Hikyuu]

Haeso, on 31 October 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

The trial dragon doesn't have enough heatsinks to use any of it's three weapon types constantly. It's horrible. Are you trying to suggest because you can kill people with it, it's not horrible? I could kill people with a jenner and one MG, would that make it good?

>complains about heat mitigation
>an entire aspect of the game.

if you're firing the Medium Lasers the Dragon will heat up quick, but you shouldn't be constantly firing the dragons weapons simultaneously. the mech wasn't meant for heavy firefights, it's more of a direct fire support (LRMS and AC5). if you focus on the AC5 or LRMs though, you can do serious damage to the enemy. without needing to be custom designed.

If you're complaining because you have to watch your heat, heads up, i still have to watch my heat in my Raven, Hunchback, Jenner, Atlas, and Catapult, so it doesn't just vastly improve because you have your own mech. you have to sacrifice firepower for HS, or criticals for ES or FF, which means smaller weapons or less secure weapons. you can't just magically have better heat efficiency without taking something else away.

do custom mechs have better burst damage? (what we call frontloading damage) yes. however they are not naturally more effective, even a custom mech can only fire 1-2 salvos before it starts to heat up, an average heat efficiency with HS is 1.2-1.3, with DHS it's like 1.5-1.6. the Dragon is at a 1.02. but it's still in line with other mechs that have single HS's. the medium lasers are a defensive weapon and are only meant to be fired when the AC5 and LRM are ineffective/out of ammo/ difficult to track the enemy with. however even then, bieng aware of what theyre hitting you with and were, you can use your bum arm to absorb almost an entire CT's worth of damage (only some mechs get this luxury!). this makes the dragon far more secure in a brawl as long as you arent just constantly showing them your torso.


and besides that, the arguement is that the trial mechs have an unfair disadvantage to custom mechs, and this, as seen by my compatriots testimonies, is incredibly untrue. Pilot skill is the most major factor, and working around a mechs strengths and flaws will help you survive. learning to communicate with team members is good too. especially if you're in a fire support dragon.

Edited by Hikyuu, 31 October 2012 - 01:42 AM.

[Krivvan]

Haeso, on 31 October 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

The trial dragon doesn't have enough heatsinks to use any of it's three weapon types constantly. It's horrible. Are you trying to suggest because you can kill people with it, it's not horrible? I could kill people with a jenner and one MG, would that make it good?

If you built a mech with enough heatsinks to use all of its weapon types constantly then chances are you've built that mech wrong.

In fact, if you've built any mech (except maybe the Gaussapult) to fire any of its weapon types constantly then you won't have a very effective mech. The best mechs are the mechs that are NOT heat neutral because the reality is you aren't firing weapons constantly. You want to build up heat faster than you can dissipate otherwise you are wasting tonnage and slots on heat sinks.

Also, I very much doubt you could do much of anything with a Jenner and one machinegun assuming you weren't reported for hacking first. =p


To be honest I don't even like the Trial Dragon, but I consider it an effective mech. I'm happier with the trial Centurion though.

Edited by Krivvan, 31 October 2012 - 01:43 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

Alpha boats might be possible eventually but cmon' it's boring.....

[Haeso]

Hikyuu, on 31 October 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

>complains about heat mitigation
>an entire aspect of the game.

if you're firing the Medium Lasers the Dragon will heat up quick, but you shouldn't be constantly firing the dragons weapons simultaneously. the mech wasn't meant for heavy firefights, it's more of a direct fire support (LRMS and AC5). if you focus on the AC5 or LRMs though, you can do serious damage to the enemy. without needing to be custom designed.

If you're complaining because you have to watch your heat, heads up, i still have to watch my heat in my Raven, Hunchback, Jenner, Atlas, and Catapult, so it doesn't just vastly improve because you have your own mech. you have to sacrifice firepower for HS, or criticals for ES or FF, which means smaller weapons or less secure weapons. you can't just magically have better heat efficiency without taking something else away.

and besides that, the arguement is that the trial mechs have an unfair disadvantage to custom mechs, and this, as seen by my compatriots testimonies, is incredibly untrue. Pilot skill is the most major factor, and working around a mechs strengths and flaws will help you survive. learning to communicate with team members is good too. especially if you're in a fire support dragon.

If you're going to try and argue with me, don't use red herrings please, debate properly.

Nobody said anything about pilot skill not being important, or even the most important or not - all I've said is that the trial 'Mech is terrible, and it is. You cannot even fire the LRMs/AC5 constantly. Fire support is not code for "Shoot a couple times then hide behind the mountain while your heat slowly dissipates" - that's bad. Dropping engine speed or the MLs for more heat sinks would make it a better fire support, dropping the LRM for heat sinks would make it a VASTLY superior brawler. I actually like the dragon chasis and theme, fast heavies are a personal favorite, but the default dragon is bollocks. Even just giving the trial dragon DHS would make it TERRIFIC. I'd really like it then, it still wouldn't be optimal, but it'd be good instead of bad.

Krivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

If you built a mech with enough heatsinks to use all of its weapon types constantly then chances are you've built that mech wrong.

In fact, if you've built any mech (except maybe the Gaussapult) to fire any of its weapon types constantly then you won't have a very effective mech. The best mechs are the mechs that are NOT heat neutral because the reality is you aren't firing weapons constantly. You want to build up heat faster than you can dissipate otherwise you are wasting tonnage and slots on heat sinks.

Under what situation does more weapons help you if you cannot fire them? Also I don't aim for heat neutral, I aim for slightly under it. It's true that fully neutral is overkill, but the dragon is not anywhere NEAR neutral. Now if you could have DHS on the dragon, with it's zero extra HS beyond the engine heat sinks, it would be a fantastic trial mech! But 10 SHS with it's weapon loadout is stupid.

The only time extra weapons can help is if you're long range or short range and trying to fight outside that zone, in which case your team has failed to protect you (Long range) or you've failed to advance into position (Short range).

Quote

Also, I very much doubt you could do much of anything with a Jenner and one machinegun assuming you weren't reported for hacking first. =p

There are plenty of AFKers by their control point, you'd be surprised! Also, some people still haven't figured out that if you can't turn/twist fast enough to shoot a light, you just spin the other way real quick, I've kept an atlas busy in a jenner back in CB for several minutes without getting hit, granted I'd lost my weapons before then so it was a bit of a wash.

Quote

To be honest I don't even like the Trial Dragon, but I consider it an effective mech. I'm happier with the trial Centurion though.

Can it fight? Sure. Is it anywhere near optimal? Not even close. I'm with you on preferring the trial Cent as well. I liked it so much it was my first closed beta purchase.

Edited by Haeso, 31 October 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Krivvan]

Haeso, on 31 October 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Nobody said anything about pilot skill not being important, or even the most important or not - all I've said is that the trial 'Mech is terrible, and it is. You cannot even fire the LRMs/AC5 constantly. Fire support is not code for "Shoot a couple times then hide behind the mountain while your heat slowly dissipates" - that's bad.

That's not what fire support means at all. Also, like I said, firing the LRMs or AC5 constantly is terrible. You don't want that to ever happen on a custom mech too.

For example, my Jenner is less heat efficient than the stock Jenner, and yet it is capable of doing more damage because I'm not actually just standing there firing all my weapons constantly nor am I even able to if I wanted to. I only have a few seconds to fire weapons before I have to run off or take cover. If I was more heat neutral then I'd be wasting heat sinks stuck at 0% heat for half the game.

Oh, and if you're going to argue, don't attempt to state something is a fact when it isn't a consensus whatsoever, debate properly.

Edited by Krivvan, 31 October 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[Hikyuu]

Haeso, on 31 October 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

If you're going to try and argue with me, don't use red herrings please, debate properly.

Nobody said anything about pilot skill not being important, or even the most important or not - all I've said is that the trial 'Mech is terrible, and it is. You cannot even fire the LRMs/AC5 constantly. Fire support is not code for "Shoot a couple times then hide behind the mountain while your heat slowly dissipates" - that's bad. Dropping engine speed or the MLs for more heat sinks would make it a better fire support, dropping the LRM for heat sinks would make it a VASTLY superior brawler. I actually like the dragon chasis and theme, fast heavies are a personal favorite, but the default dragon is bollocks.

however it is still a viable mech if used properly, what you're missing is that they whine that they can't kill anything in their mechs to the super vastly superior custom mech, and we've just literally proven that false, the red herring here sir is that your 'opinion' is not what i'm arguing. but fact.

not once did i shut down, not once did Kriv shut down, are you saying using terrain to your advantage is bad? man you must take a lot of LRMs to the head. yes, fire support can't just stand there and shoot all the time constantly. (this would be because you'd eventually get singled out.) the mech is usable, and can achieve kills, you just need to not suck.

your opinion is that it would be better with 'X' or if 'X' was taken away. that's fine, thats what experience teaches you, that's the mech you would run if you could buy one and afford it, there in lies my point, you actually have to learn this **** before you can even properly build a mech to your playstyle, and thus the trials are not ineffective, the pilots are, and the only way to reduce that is to learn and be better.

i used to run stock matches back in the MW4 and MW3 days, everyone always winced and moaned that 'OMG STOCK MECHS SUCK', but Clan TW and Gimp could faceroll chaps in their popup sniper builds in MW4 using stock Madcats. these complaints to me are moot because unlike most, i learn the mech, i learn how it feels and operates, i can fight in anything on that list of trials and win/kill/make money, and i'm not even that good of a player, just a concious one that can breath by nature and not drag my knuckles when i walk. just sayin.

Edited by Hikyuu, 31 October 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[Krivvan]

Keep track of my heat throughout this game. I do not run anything close to a heat neutral build, there are only 10-11 heat sinks in that mech, the engine heat sinks only basically.

[Hikyuu]

Krivvan is now my new best friend! Finally someone who gets it!

by chance were you in GIMP back in MW3/4?

[Mordin Ashe]

I like that Mech! Had a similar build in CB and was quite succesfull with it. Dragon isn't typical heavy mech, it is fast and you need to learn to use the chassis properly. Also since it doesn't have any serious alpha, you need to harass the enemy. Too many people try to play it like a swayback and fail miserably, Dragon is too big to do that well. Harass, circle, be as annoying as possible. In return, Dragon will reward you with high speed, meaning you can simply run away from problems and you will find it easier to murder enemies from behind.
Hard not to like that thing.

[Krivvan]

Hikyuu, on 31 October 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

by chance were you in GIMP back in MW3/4?

Nope, almost all of my multiplayer experience with mechwarrior is from MWO.