26 replies to this topic

[Straker]

As the devs said eventually people will be able to pick up all the pilot skills. This means that at some point it is very likely you will have a lot of commanders in a given match. I'm wondering if abilities such as artilery and the other commander skills will have individual cooldowns, or global ones.

For example if it's individual, your team could basically spam the ability.

If it's global, then one ***** can waste it and all the others can't use a skill.

Not really sure what the best solution is, but it could become a problem.

[Vollstrecker]

Well, if there is one primary commander for a mission, it would just make sense to restrict it to that person, or if you're running it as Lance Commanders, require a 2/3 majority for use.

Not 100% on how tactical command is being handled.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ive always seen a global cooldown as a player only thing, affecting EVERYTHING that ability with a global CD in the same tree, like next tier and previous tier for example. But never seen nor should it EVER be on an entire group of players, thats just horrid. I DO think that command level abilities SHOULD be limited <turned on> to be used ONLY in a command slot.

[Straker]

But that's my point. If you don't limit it, you could literally have Naval Artillery support done over and over again. If you do limit it, then you are preventing people from using their abilities. Which sucks if you happen to be that new guy playing who went commander and thats his main tree. The other people in the match could keep picking the more experienced commander.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I do agree to limit that sorta crap, but, not in a way where global means ALL commanders, it COULD jack with game balance where if lets say your a commander Straker and I am a commander and I get the orbital strike command off first, a global limit like that could stop YOU from doing so ya know? I say limit the commander abilities to THOSE in command slot, and turn it off for everyone else in the team.

[Vollstrecker]

The player can always start his own unit, however I kinda think that for random PUGs, it might be best to use Lance Commanders and a 2/3 vote if it's limited in any way other than a cooldown.

[LordDeathStrike]

if the artillery strikes all come from the same gun base, then it needs time to reload.

you need the modules on your mech to call it in, by using artillery modules you give up ones like ecm or bap or ams ect.

[Straker]

LordDeathStrike, on 30 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

if the artillery strikes all come from the same gun base, then it needs time to reload.

you need the modules on your mech to call it in, by using artillery modules you give up ones like ecm or bap or ams ect.

Basically saying the gun base needs to reload is saying there is a global timer affecting the ability.

Module limits is a factor, but lets face it, we all know you will find that group of people willing to all have arty modules and commander skills if they can spam an ability for an edge.

[Rejarial Galatan]

well, its 3049, who says reloading takes more than a second? heck the M1A2 abrams can cycle its main gun every 2 seconds or so, if that slow.

[Orzorn]

The fact of the matter is that there is going to have to be a global cooldown on the abilities, or else you will have players taking commander abilities in order to constantly use them.

The only real issue with this is that we might end up with trolls getting those abilities and then using them either on their allies or just blowing them on nothing, preventing legitimate use of them until the cooldown ends.

Hopefully the developers can provide a comment on this matter.

[Rejarial Galatan]

IF, and I mean IF Global Cool Down means it affects ALL with that ability, then I am 100% against it. That is an unfair limit. NOW, I will say this again: IF all players will have access to a given commander ability, I say turn it off on those NOT in a command position for that match, but for the love of god do not make it affect everyone where its gonna turn into a who got to hit that ability first basically OWNS it. talk about unbalancing the wheel when tryin to BALANCE it.

[Orzorn]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 April 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

IF, and I mean IF Global Cool Down means it affects ALL with that ability, then I am 100% against it. That is an unfair limit. NOW, I will say this again: IF all players will have access to a given commander ability, I say turn it off on those NOT in a command position for that match, but for the love of god do not make it affect everyone where its gonna turn into a who got to hit that ability first basically OWNS it. talk about unbalancing the wheel when tryin to BALANCE it.

And then what? If you don't have a global cooldown, then you could literally have every player in a lance using the abilitiy. Additionally, the developers already confirmed that "command position" isn't something built into the game. Players with command modules get access to command abilities. You aren't designated a commander unless you're working with a unit or corp, and then its just by an honor system. So it isn't as if, in a 12 player game, we have 3 commanders. You could have any number of players wanting to take these abilities to use them. We couldn't possibly allow 12 artillery strikes or 12 predator drones.

I understand the issue of being be jerks. No, I don't know a real way around it. All I know is that not having a restriction would literally ruin the game.

Edited by Orzorn, 30 April 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

<slams his head into the wall> Let me say it again: Make the COMMANDERS on each side the ONLY ONES with COMMANDER ABILITIES TURNED ON. cannot make this any clearer. I KNOW at SOME point we will ALL have those commander abilites. BUT BUT BUT BUT, in a given match, theres gonna be what? 1 commander or so PER side, so, again, WHY make this into a: he who pushed the red button first OWNS the ability?

[Straker]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

&lt;slams his head into the wall&gt; Let me say it again: Make the COMMANDERS on each side the ONLY ONES with COMMANDER ABILITIES TURNED ON. cannot make this any clearer. I KNOW at SOME point we will ALL have those commander abilites. BUT BUT BUT BUT, in a given match, theres gonna be what? 1 commander or so PER side, so, again, WHY make this into a: he who pushed the red button first OWNS the ability?

So how does that work. Lets say you get 4 people in a match with the commander tree. They dont have assault or scout skills. Now one person is chosen as the commander, either randomly or by vote. So the other three don't get to use their skills? Seems kind of unfair when you consider all he scout and assault / def abilities work for everybody.

[Haakon Valravn]

Counter-battery fire and utilization of air support to knock out enemy air support (or keep them busy enough dodging fire that they have to call off the fire mission) could help reduce risks of abuse, since both sides are supposed to be roughly balanced.

[Rejarial Galatan]

<slams his head into the wall again, making a sizeable dent in the brick> chocolate in whipped cream help me out here huh?

Commander <dude givin the orders in the match> HAS commander level abilities turned ON.
Subordinate team members <even if they HAVE commander level abilities> said commander level abilities are turned OFF for the match to avoid the whole 12 orbital strike fear you seem to have.

NOW, i am NOT saying let only commanders have ALL the abilities, I am saying things that ONLY a commander <the one chosen to be in this slot for a match or match made INTO this slot> should have access to things that you fear sir. Artillery orders, orbital hits, etc etc etc. i

[Orzorn]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 April 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

<slams his head into the wall again, making a sizeable dent in the brick> chocolate in whipped cream help me out here huh?

Commander <dude givin the orders in the match> HAS commander level abilities turned ON.
Subordinate team members <even if they HAVE commander level abilities> said commander level abilities are turned OFF for the match to avoid the whole 12 orbital strike fear you seem to have.

NOW, i am NOT saying let only commanders have ALL the abilities, I am saying things that ONLY a commander <the one chosen to be in this slot for a match or match made INTO this slot> should have access to things that you fear sir. Artillery orders, orbital hits, etc etc etc. i

Works for me. This also goes with how commanders are chosen:

Quote

To sort of expand on two questions previously asked, about command, will command in any drop be established automatically by rank, or is it chosen prior to launching into the drop, for each drop? I ask because people do not generally make rank unless the Command & Staff are frivolous with their rank structure or they have not earned it. –Kay Wolf

[PAUL] Command is chosen prior to the drop. For Merc Corps, it’s up to the Merc Corp Leader or its officers to decide who’s going to be in those command positions. For Lone Wolf and Faction Players, it will come down to a calculation on their previous experience by default then it can be left up to the players of the match to swap out if so desired.

Players will just have to make sure to swap the position (in the case of Lone Wolves) to those who are best suited. A player might get stuck in the command position but never took any artillery modules, for instance, whereas another player did, so those players might agree to swap out so that their lance has access to those modules.

So I suppose what we might see is the 3 lance commanders all have access to those modules, so we might have, at any one time, 3 artillery strikes, for instance.

Edited by Orzorn, 30 April 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Hyperius]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 April 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

<slams his head into the wall again, making a sizeable dent in the brick> chocolate in whipped cream help me out here huh?

Commander <dude givin the orders in the match> HAS commander level abilities turned ON.
Subordinate team members <even if they HAVE commander level abilities> said commander level abilities are turned OFF for the match to avoid the whole 12 orbital strike fear you seem to have.

NOW, i am NOT saying let only commanders have ALL the abilities, I am saying things that ONLY a commander <the one chosen to be in this slot for a match or match made INTO this slot> should have access to things that you fear sir. Artillery orders, orbital hits, etc etc etc. i

But like someone said before, there is no designated commander slot built into the game which means that there is no way to restrict commander abilities to one person. The only time there is a designated commander role is when the players impose it in their group. So basically the question is, if 2 players take the artillery strike ability into the same game on the same team and because there is no harcoded commander role (as far as I know) how do we make sure we keep it balanced?

Edit: Nevermind. I didn't see Orzorn's post because I was in the middle of writing mine so all of this is wrong. Sorry!

Edited by Hyperius, 30 April 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[Orzorn]

Hyperius, on 30 April 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

But like someone said before, there is no designated commander slot built into the game which means that there is no way to restrict commander abilities to one person. The only time there is a designated commander role is when the players impose it in their group. So basically the question is, if 2 players take the artillery strike ability into the same game on the same team and because there is no harcoded commander role (as far as I know) how do we make sure we keep it balanced?

Sorry, but I was incorrect. There is no designated commander that actually gets to boss the group around, but there is a designated commander role that gets to use all the pretty modules.

It is pretty confusing. I had to go back to the Q & A before I rediscovered this fact. The quote that I posted up above shows what I found. The commanders are chosen before the match starts, either designated (if you're in a corp) or picked based on player experience ranking (if you're a lone wolf, for instance).

[Hyperius]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 April 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

<slams his head into the wall again, making a sizeable dent in the brick> chocolate in whipped cream help me out here huh?

Commander <dude givin the orders in the match> HAS commander level abilities turned ON.
Subordinate team members <even if they HAVE commander level abilities> said commander level abilities are turned OFF for the match to avoid the whole 12 orbital strike fear you seem to have.

NOW, i am NOT saying let only commanders have ALL the abilities, I am saying things that ONLY a commander <the one chosen to be in this slot for a match or match made INTO this slot> should have access to things that you fear sir. Artillery orders, orbital hits, etc etc etc. i

In light of Orzorn's info this is the system I suspect they will use. It mimics real life too. You can't have a subordinate going over the commander's head to call in orbital strikes.

Orzorn, on 30 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Sorry, but I was incorrect. There is no designated commander that actually gets to boss the group around, but there is a designated commander role that gets to use all the pretty modules.

It is pretty confusing. I had to go back to the Q & A before I rediscovered this fact. The quote that I posted up above shows what I found. The commanders are chosen before the match starts, either designated (if you're in a corp) or picked based on player experience ranking (if you're a lone wolf, for instance).

Yeah they didn't explain that in the clearest way. Well at least we got it all sorted out now right?