65 replies to this topic

[CoolLew]

Quick question to you veterans out there.
Is it a good idea for someone to stay behind and do the un-glorious job of guarding the base?
I hate it when the group sticks together and is winning by "kills" then we loose the match because someone ran around and captured the base.
However, I can see that it would be a boring job a lot of times...

[Lin Shai]

CoolLew, on 14 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Is it a good idea for someone to stay behind and do the un-glorious job of guarding the base?

Only if you want to lose.

Unless the other team is just as bad, of course.

Edited by Lin Shai, 14 November 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Memory]

The correct strategem is for the scouts to RTB when somebody sneaks around to the cap. They can get there fast enough and if the numbers on cap are too high or too strong for the scout to deal with then you send back more. Usually your mediums/ fast heavies. So if you're in a scout you should know without even being told that when the base is being capped you have to drop whatever you're doing and take care of it. When I see a pug scout not RTB in this fashion it makes my blood boil.

So, to answer your question, no it does not pay to leave somebody back there alone. He will just get overwhelmed.

[IceSerpent]

CoolLew, on 14 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Quick question to you veterans out there.
Is it a good idea for someone to stay behind and do the un-glorious job of guarding the base?
I hate it when the group sticks together and is winning by "kills" then we loose the match because someone ran around and captured the base.
However, I can see that it would be a boring job a lot of times...

The idea is not to literally park on the base, but to go back to it when enemies try to cap. The "un-glorious" part is debatable:

[Lin Shai]

Memory, on 14 November 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

The correct strategem is for the scouts to RTB when somebody sneaks around to the cap. They can get there fast enough and if the numbers on cap are too high or too strong for the scout to deal with then you send back more. Usually your mediums/ fast heavies. So if you're in a scout you should know without even being told that when the base is being capped you have to drop whatever you're doing and take care of it. When I see a pug scout not RTB in this fashion it makes my blood boil.

So, to answer your question, no it does not pay to leave somebody back there alone. He will just get overwhelmed.

And that's only when the scouts miss that someone was heading for it in the first place.

On an organized team that is communicating rarely is "your base is under attack" a surprise. And then you send the lights to deal with it if they weren't already on their way.

Leaving anything at the base reduces tonnage somewhere else ... like in the fight, where it's needed.

[Creepy]

I tend to play the Hunchback and I typically wil loiter around the base for a little bit before moving up to add support fire if things are quiet. It's not an uncommon scenario that support/defense is too far out to halt/delay an enemy cap and sometimes I do find myself overwhelmed with the only real goal being to stay alive long enough for friendlies to complete capture way on the other side of the map.

IMHO, there's no real hard set operating proceedure aside from trying to stay flexible and adaptive.


edit: I should also add, I guess, that I tend to be of the opinion that once units are merged, you're not contributing enough if you aren't maximizing your firepower. Basically if 1/4th of your damage output is long range and you're hanging back without using 3/4 of it with heat to spare, you probably should move up and take advantage of the unused heat and firepower...

Edited by Creepy, 14 November 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[Revorn]

Its a common this days, that u cant go more than one or two squares without getting the Messeage, "Base is under Atack". Its realy not funny. Imho.

Only corect scouting and advance can try to prevent this. But i mostly play in Pug´s.

[RAM]

Yes it actually makes plenty of sense. One mech can scare off backcappers and fight a delaying action if the EN base rushes. Of course fast movers should RTB to assist but fact of the matter is that they rarely do even when the base is being capped.

What is particularly interesting is those in this thread speaking against defending and yet never return themselves…


RAM
ELH

[Bloody Moon]

There should be no "base guardians" in any MWO battle. What you should do instead is to go back and defend the base if something comes up, BUT only if you are in a fast light/medium or maybe a dragon, the only exception to this is if a massive amount of enemy players were sneaking up to your base and there is no one else you can fight on the front line. Assaults belong to the front line, period.

[Eboli]

As a Jenner player I know my job regarding this but I always send in a message to team saying that I am heading back to base.

PUGs don't all have a good sense of who and what are on their team, yet alone whether any lights are left alive on their team so such a message is helpful (if they actually see it).

The only turmoil I get is if I am already capping I am left with the question about whether how many are on our base and do I have enough lead to win the base cap. Also whether any friendly mechs will arrive to the base I/we are capping...

[CoolLew]

so...
don't waist the tonnage in defending the base, send the Lights/Med back to defend if necessary... good advice, thanks guys.

[nitra]

CoolLew, on 14 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Quick question to you veterans out there.
Is it a good idea for someone to stay behind and do the un-glorious job of guarding the base?
I hate it when the group sticks together and is winning by "kills" then we loose the match because someone ran around and captured the base.
However, I can see that it would be a boring job a lot of times...

No base guarding is detrimental to the overall teams effectivness at enemy elimination.

now be mindful of the base is a good idea kind of like playing a position on a feild

you cover a certain area but dont go to far away from it . it allows you to engage enemy mechs while giving you the fexibillity of defending base, this is ideal .

sitting in base and doing nothing for the first 5 minutes robs the team of overall fire power that could have been used to wipe out another mech.

3rd

Edited by nitra, 14 November 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Creepy]

About QRF on defense: People RTB'ing should check how many are enroute to D lest the front be left too thin. It's a pretty common tactic to have fast movers conduct a cap in order to split forces. Fast movers tend to have good endurance in terms of staying alive but people will try to take shots and chase them around. That typically spells bad news in the end.

[CycKath]

Unless your LRM-arty-support and near enough, only worth it for lights. to head back.

[Lin Shai]

RAM, on 14 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Yes it actually makes plenty of sense. One mech can scare off backcappers and fight a delaying action if the EN base rushes. Of course fast movers should RTB to assist but fact of the matter is that they rarely do even when the base is being capped.

What is particularly interesting is those in this thread speaking against defending and yet never return themselves…


RAM
ELH

@RAM - When I see a team that knows what it's doing wasting tonnage with someone standing on the base "derpa derp - I'm guarding the base!" ... you'll then have a point.

Seriously. I love it when I see an enemy team do that, pretty much means we just won.

If you're a PUG playing against a PUG? Maybe ... the clueless factor cancels out I suppose? Even then if your team hasn't scouted and has run off in a random direction and doesn't know what the enemy team is doing, I sincerely doubt the lone mech standing on the base is going to be anything more than momentary target practice.

And if I'm a scout on an organized team doing my usual "Lets see how many I can get to turn around and go to base by stepping on it" ... you've just done my job for me and made it so I can go kill something.

There's literally no reason to ever leave one mech on the base unless you're not playing as a team ... in which case, you're probably going to lose anyway.

Edited by Lin Shai, 14 November 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Kommisar]

Behold! The Rise of the Light, Fast Mechs!!!

The assault and heavy mechs in a group have to make a decision at the start of the round. Advance, Attack and go for the enemy base OR sit back and wait near their base. Normally, they do not have the speed to change course. Especially if it is a fast light mech capping your base. If they do, they run the risk of moving about and getting little done.

[Lin Shai]

Kommisar, on 14 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Behold! The Rise of the Light, Fast Mechs!!!

The assault and heavy mechs in a group have to make a decision at the start of the round. Advance, Attack and go for the enemy base OR sit back and wait near their base. Normally, they do not have the speed to change course. Especially if it is a fast light mech capping your base. If they do, they run the risk of moving about and getting little done.

Um, you have the same number of lights.

They go back. This does not affect what the rest of your team is doing.

The fact that people don't grasp this basic concept is how the "Squirrel!" meme started. We lights make a run at the base early in the matchonly as a distraction. If you send back anything but a light (or a medium if you managed to get your lights all dead), you just split your team, and are probably about to get slaughtered. When anything shows up ... we leave and run back to the fight.

[Creepy]

You guys don't always leave. Hell, sometimes it's the lights that are rolling the front with maybe a medium or two. The rest of the mob are thundering down on the base...

[RAM]

Lin Shai, on 14 November 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

There's literally no reason to ever leave one mech on the base unless you're not playing as a team ... in which case, you're probably going to lose anyway.

The simple fact of the matter is that if there truly was ‘no reason’ there would not be threads like this. In addition all the ‘I hate cappers’ threads clearly indicate that people are not properly defending.

Now I will be the first to concede that ideally it should be fast movers RTB to prevent caps, but time and time again it simply does not happen – and this is before considering that not all teams are going to have mechs capable of responding adequately to begin with.

There are also other tasks that can carried out at the same time as defending: Direct & Indirect support being good examples as well as Commanding.

Finally, you should always have a reserve and this function can be fulfilled by the defender.


RAM
ELH

[Lin Shai]

Creepy, on 14 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

You guys don't always leave. Hell, sometimes it's the lights that are rolling the front with maybe a medium or two. The rest of the mob are thundering down on the base...

Unfortunately this is a side effect of lights being "easy mode" currently with the horrid netcode and hit detection coupled with no knockdowns ::sigh::

It used to be a lot more fun.