20 replies to this topic

[Multitallented]

Need: Something to help players understand that they are driving a Mech which does not always drive in the same direction as what you're facing.

Need: Realistic perspective that immerses the player in combat, and makes them feel like they are piloting a giant Mech, while not granting any advantages to players.

Solution: Mechwarrior 3 style damage display avatar. By default it is a tiny external camera that only shows your mech, with shading to indicate damage. With the press of a button, it can be toggled to a more detailed static image that we currently have. The only difference you would need from MW3 is to keep the rear armor display in addition to the avatar.

As I was listening to the podcast, I wanted to yell this idea because nobody mentioned it.

Edited by Multitallented, 14 November 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Personally I think the only solution is a 3rd person server. I do not like the idea of 3rd person, but a server for this could work, call it a learning/training server. If the reason is to help new players, that is.

[FrupertApricot]

That would divide the playerbase too hard. We need a 3rd representation of our mechs anyway.

[Dagger906]

Dirk Le Daring, on 14 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Personally I think the only solution is a 3rd person server. I do not like the idea of 3rd person, but a server for this could work, call it a learning/training server. If the reason is to help new players, that is.

It's called a tickbox, clone of previous MW games. When disabled, you only match up with others who are also first-person only. When enabled, you match with people who can switch between modes, as can you.

MW3/4 style Master servers handle non-permanent hosts (who are not true servers, but rather players who's hosting the match). MWO master server in beta only has auto matching so far.

Edited by Dagger906, 14 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Multitallented]

FrupertApricot, on 14 November 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

That would divide the playerbase too hard. We need a 3rd representation of our mechs anyway.

I agree, and I think it can be done easily in a way that will make everyone happy.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Dagger906, on 14 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

It's called a tickbox, clone of previous MW games. When disabled, you only match up with others who are also first-person only. When enabled, you match with people who can switch between modes, as can you.

MW3/4 style Master servers handle non-permanent hosts (who are not true servers, but rather players who's hosting the match). MWO master server in beta only has auto matching so far.

I could live with this, but considering certain topics regarding unfair "utilities", there would have to be a solid guarantee it cannot be exploited. But still not sold on the idea.

[Multitallented]

Dirk Le Daring, on 14 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I could live with this, but considering certain topics regarding unfair "utilities", there would have to be a solid guarantee it cannot be exploited. But still not sold on the idea.

I'm sure that a tickbox can't be exploited. It's basically a glorfied damage indicator. MWO already has something similar to this with the minimap. It shows your view range and an arrow that shows the direction your legs are pointing. A tickbox just makes it easier to see and makes the game look that much better.

[Pocket Psycho]

There are indicators in the game already that illustrate the difference in direction between your torso and legs, the compass at the top will split to show leg heading and torso heading, and the mini-map shows a dotted line denoting direction of leg travel while the view cone shows direction of torso. With these 2 very easy to understand indicators do you really think we need a 3rd?

[Multitallented]

Pocket Psycho, on 14 November 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

There are indicators in the game already that illustrate the difference in direction between your torso and legs, the compass at the top will split to show leg heading and torso heading, and the mini-map shows a dotted line denoting direction of leg travel while the view cone shows direction of torso. With these 2 very easy to understand indicators do you really think we need a 3rd?

Yes, I think we really really need something easier to see. I don't, but I have tried to introduce this game to my friends and they all end up running into a wall because of this. Russ even said it himself in the last Mechs Devs and Beer podcast that this is the number 1 issue for new players. It's the whole reason why 3rd person view is being discussed at all.

[Pocket Psycho]

Multitallented, on 14 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yes, I think we really really need something easier to see. I don't, but I have tried to introduce this game to my friends and they all end up running into a wall because of this. Russ even said it himself in the last Mechs Devs and Beer podcast that this is the number 1 issue for new players. It's the whole reason why 3rd person view is being discussed at all.

Easier to see? One is directly at the top of the screen and the other is directly at the bottom, the bottom one being a screen you want to be in the habit of checking often anyway, I guess they could move the compass indicators or something similar to sit underneath the reticule so your vision doesn't need to move much to check it.

It shouldn't take anyone very long to learn how to steer a 'Mech and to pay attention to the HUD indicators, hell I steer my Jenner with the minimap, just about the only way to avoid stuff while tracking targets with the torso.

Edited by Pocket Psycho, 14 November 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[Multitallented]

Pocket Psycho, on 14 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Easier to see? One is directly at the top of the screen and the other is directly at the bottom, the bottom one being a screen you want to be in the habit of checking often anyway, I guess they could move the compass indicators or something similar to sit underneath the reticule so your vision doesn't need to move much to check it.

It shouldn't take anyone very long to learn how to steer a 'Mech and to pay attention to the HUD indicators, hell I steer my Jenner with the minimap, just about the only way to avoid stuff while tracking targets with the torso.

I am a Jenner pilot and I steer by my minimap as well. Thing is, for my friends these 2 things aren't graphically intuitive. If they see a 3-D representation of their mech, they will understand.

Once I let my friend play a game in a K2 gauss-a-pult. She began twisting her torso violently trying to turn her mech which was running into a building. I pointed to the minimap and explained, which helped a little. She went into the cave on Frozen City and began running into walls again as an enemy Centurion ran up to her. She was taking damage and unable to move or aim properly. The Centurion just stood there and fired. I asked to take over for a sec, calmly aimed, and killed the Cent in one hit to the cockpit. I had a very hard time getting my friend to take the controls again.

[Dagger906]

Pocket Psycho, on 14 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Easier to see? One is directly at the top of the screen and the other is directly at the bottom, the bottom one being a screen you want to be in the habit of checking often anyway, I guess they could move the compass indicators or something similar to sit underneath the reticule so your vision doesn't need to move much to check it.

It shouldn't take anyone very long to learn how to steer a 'Mech and to pay attention to the HUD indicators, hell I steer my Jenner with the minimap, just about the only way to avoid stuff while tracking targets with the torso.

It's actually is hard to see. For that matter, the whole hud is hard to see. Yellow-brown lines on brown background. Why can't we have the neon green/red hud of past Mechwarrior games?

[Multitallented]

Dagger906, on 14 November 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

It's actually is hard to see. For that matter, the whole hud is hard to see. Yellow-brown lines on brown background. Why can't we have the neon green/red hud of past Mechwarrior games?

I agree, but I'm pretty sure people would complain if the HUD looked like something created for Windows 95

[Pocket Psycho]

Dagger906, on 14 November 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

It's actually is hard to see. For that matter, the whole hud is hard to see. Yellow-brown lines on brown background. Why can't we have the neon green/red hud of past Mechwarrior games?

Fair point, the HUD colors are pretty crap, they blend into the terrain quite nicely on Caustic Valley. I'm fairly sure there was a dev comment somewhere saying that eventually all HUD elements will be able to have their colors changed in the options, probably a long way off though.

Multitallented, on 14 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I am a Jenner pilot and I steer by my minimap as well. Thing is, for my friends these 2 things aren't graphically intuitive. If they see a 3-D representation of their mech, they will understand.

Once I let my friend play a game in a K2 gauss-a-pult. She began twisting her torso violently trying to turn her mech which was running into a building. I pointed to the minimap and explained, which helped a little. She went into the cave on Frozen City and began running into walls again as an enemy Centurion ran up to her. She was taking damage and unable to move or aim properly. The Centurion just stood there and fired. I asked to take over for a sec, calmly aimed, and killed the Cent in one hit to the cockpit. I had a very hard time getting my friend to take the controls again.

Okay that's pretty funny, but then that's basically like panic steering in a car when it slides for the first time. That isn't something that is correctable by a different style of indicator, it's just something that time a practice will sort out, preferably without someone firing at you

In part it's your fault for just handing over the controls without explaining how they work, basically like sticking someone behind the wheel of a car without them first knowing what the pedals, wheel and gearstick do.

[Dagger906]

The learning curve should come from advanced strategies that makes the game deeper, not unintuitive controls that makes the game clunkier.

[Aedensin]

A PiP window would be nifty but that would probably require more rendering than absolutely necessary. I love the idea, I rather like the looks of my mechs lol but at the moment it probably isn't very practical.

[Multitallented]

Pocket Psycho, on 14 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Okay that's pretty funny, but then that's basically like panic steering in a car when it slides for the first time. That isn't something that is correctable by a different style of indicator, it's just something that time a practice will sort out, preferably without someone firing at you

In part it's your fault for just handing over the controls without explaining how they work, basically like sticking someone behind the wheel of a car without them first knowing what the pedals, wheel and gearstick do.

Well, the concern from PGI, which I as a minecraft server owner fully understand, is that new players will get too frustrated and leave without bothering to figure it out. The idea isn't to exclude people for things we could easily remedy, but to include as many people as possible. The way I see it, my friend could be a great pilot if she took the time. It's not hard. The problem is the first impression she got. If you were killed first and you didn't do any damage for the first few games you played you might not play more.

Essentially this is the same as the PUG v Premade argument before Phase 1. Sure if you got on Vent or Teamspeak you would be fine, but most people don't and get stomped 0-8 over and over.

[Multitallented]

Aedensin, on 14 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

A PiP window would be nifty but that would probably require more rendering than absolutely necessary. I love the idea, I rather like the looks of my mechs lol but at the moment it probably isn't very practical.

Your computer can handle one small (possibly simplified) model more than it's used to.

[Aedensin]

Multitallented, on 14 November 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Your computer can handle one small (possibly simplified) model more than it's used to.

I was talking about CryEngine

Was basing it on the zoom perk were you end up with a box of large pixels because it can't or PGI hasn't been able to make it render another window.

[Pocket Psycho]

Multitallented, on 14 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Well, the concern from PGI, which I as a minecraft server owner fully understand, is that new players will get too frustrated and leave without bothering to figure it out. The idea isn't to exclude people for things we could easily remedy, but to include as many people as possible. The way I see it, my friend could be a great pilot if she took the time. It's not hard. The problem is the first impression she got. If you were killed first and you didn't do any damage for the first few games you played you might not play more.

Essentially this is the same as the PUG v Premade argument before Phase 1. Sure if you got on Vent or Teamspeak you would be fine, but most people don't and get stomped 0-8 over and over.

Probably the best solution would be to have a training room for people to have private matches that provide no reward and cost no credits, basically a sim room something that exists in canon lore, it'd provide an environment for players to practice and learn, as well as testing out 'Mech builds. It would also be of great help for Merc/House Companies to practice strategies and tactics in preparation for the community warfare when it's added.

This isn't a new idea of course, I've seen a few posts over the months asking for some kind of training room, and WoT has it for their Clans to train in.