19 replies to this topic

[Hayashi]

CT: 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, XL 300 with 2 Double Heat Sinks
LA: LRM15 + SSRM2
RA: LRM15 + SSRM2
Legs: 4 tons LRM ammo
RT: AMS, 1 Jump Jet (for turning radius), 1 Double Heat Sink
LT: 2 tons SSRM ammo, 1 Double Heat Sink
Head: 1 ton AMS ammo
Endo Steel. Not enough criticals for Ferro Fibrous armour, so forget that. Max armour in all locations except legs (48 armour each), with front:back ratio aboutt 2:1.

This is NOT a Rambo build, but it's one of the most effective DPS builds I've ever seen on the field, and it's excellent for its role of supporting fire.

The strategy - stay 100m behind your vanguard Mechs (usually Atlases, Hunchbacks or Dragons) and advance. When spotters call in targets, don't LRM with impunity. Make sure targets have no cover (like... Jenners running in the lake in Forest Colony) before you use the LRMs. Their primary purpose is not to rain useless spread projectiles from the sky - that's just a secondary purpose to make the Jenners run away. Because with current LRM damage, you're not going to kill them when they're running full speed, let's face that.

The idea is to wait till your vanguard engages an enemy or enemies. Prioritise targets with respect to their pinpoint damage potential - that's what's going to be a threat to your vanguard - that means, Gausscats first. Light Mechs are second, because you're going to be able to hit them like no other build out there can hope to.

Your perfect range bracket is 180m-270m, but to minimise wastage we'll work with 200-250m as a practical effective range. Within this range, your LRMs will hit at full damage (>180m), and your SSRMs will also hit at full damage (<270m). Stay within this range from your target at all times, as far as possible. Your XL 300 means you can keep up with every Mech that isn't a Light. If they go for you, run away, and use the trademark Catapult torso twist to fire at them as you run. Bear in mind that in that effective range bracket, your weapons are auto-tracking, and thus once you have a lock, fire and TURN AWAY. This spreads damage to you everywhere in your Mech, instead of concentrated in that big fat Centre Torso Catapults have, and this will save your life. Don't stop at any time, if you're in the range bracket, run laterally, and always twist your head away when you're not firing to protect your CT and head. Turn only to shoot, then run some more.

This build can do in excess of 700 damage and get up to 4 kills in a PUG match, and very consistently wins the match (in contrast, a Gausscat usually gets you killed very fast, because everyone prioritises the Gausscat nowadays).

People think LRMs are underpowered. They are, but very few pilots, if any other, use them this way. In an MRM application, the LRMs are about 80-90% accurate, and 40-50% of the missiles actually hit the Centre Torso. In addition, your LRMs screen the AMS, so your Streaks will all hit at full damage. This perception of LRMs being weak and/or useless weapons is your best ally, as people won't target you as a priority, they'll go after the PPC/AC20/Gauss toting Mechs first. But your damage per volley significantly eclipses any of theirs.

My death rate in this setup is even lower than the death rate in a maxed Jenner.

And for killing Lights, like Jenners...

They like to charge you. Let them, and shoot your MPLAS at them - all of the shots will hit. You'll have enough time to get Streak lock, use them, then turn away. Most will try to circle you, so that puts your crosshairs on them again. Fire MPLAS, Streaks, then turn away again.

After a while most Light pilots will have had enough, since they take significantly more damage from this combination that what most Mechs pack. They may seek out a new target. DO NOT MISS THIS CHANCE. The moment they turn away to attack another target, fire MPLAS, Streak, and LRMs in succession.The slow speed of LRMs means the light Mech will be 200-250m away by the time the LRMs actually hit - this has the capability of blowing both arms, a leg, or the CT off a light, if done right. A second volley of LRMs (or both LRMs and Streaks, if what was blown off was the leg) will almost certainly lay the Light to rest.

In this build, your greatest enemies are Atlases and Gausscats. Avoid direct engagement wherever you can - let your teammates take aggro while you move to 230m and Streak/LRM them to death.

Below 180m, you have both Streaks and MPLAS.
180m-270m, you have both Streaks and LRM15.
270m-1000m, you have LRM15.

You are a monster at any range, even with the hideously underpowered LRMs at present. You might want to try this out, get used to it. When LRMs get restored to somewhat less laughable values, you will go from having the most assists/top 3 damagers/top 3 killers in a match, to being the top damager. The DPS at all ranges by the setup ensures that.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I play almost similar build in terms of weaponry but i run with 250 std. engine and Cases /w ammo in side torsos(since you are only slightly behind front line you should go w/o xl engine like most brawlers).Also i go with std. lasers.
And i run with only 10 default DHS and i never overheat unless i alpha like 6 times in a row on caustic.
Also i can pick up more ammo and i run with Artemis bcuz mostly i have LoS on target(smashing Commando with 2-4 salvos are fun if he is like 300 meters away and i have los on him,even better with tag ).

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[Cstriker]

I'm about to buy a new Catapult (can't upgrade my hunch any more, love my 4SP!) and I'm torn between the C4 and the C1.

I like your build, and those SSRM2s sound like they will make lights pause. The alpha strike between 180-270m would be amazing too, and the ability to rain hell down on enemies sounds like fun. It would be able to zombie okay, but that's where I'm torn...

The C1 will pack less missiles with only 2 hardpoints for them, but the ability to mount moar lazors! This means moar zombie! Though now less versatile in the missile department if I wanted to mount more then 2 LRM15s or 10s...

Any thoughts? Tough desicion, they both have some strengths...maybe I can squeeze in some Large lazors instead of medium for moar damage and moar range on the C4! RAWR KITTIES!

[Hayashi]

My C1 build is 4 medium pulse and 2 SSRM2. It wrecks mediums and lights but is completely useless at long range. =P

Edited by Hayashi, 16 November 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

I like the concept, but I can't help but feel like the XL engine is a huge liability. I suppose it would be manageable, but I might sacrifice the speed for a safer torso.

[Cstriker]

With the catapults, your side torso is much harder to hit making taking an XL a viable option. It's worth considering and I plan on grabbing one so I can fit in more armor and other goodies.

Hayashi, on 16 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

My C4 build is 4 medium pulse and 2 SSRM2. It wrecks mediums and lights but is completely useless at long range. =P

I think you have a C1, C4 has only 2 energy hardpoints.

[Hayashi]

By the way, I've never been cored in the side torso, you don't have to worry about XL safety. The Catapult side torso is an absolute pain to hit. It's always been critical hits in the front centre torso. Critical as in, I've not once died with zero internals left since the patch.

I'm starting to wonder if Endo Steel increases critical chances.

Cstriker, on 16 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

I think you have a C1, C4 has only 2 energy hardpoints.

Yup. Mistake made. =P

[Wrenchfarm]

Hayashi, on 16 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

By the way, I've never been cored in the side torso, you don't have to worry about XL safety. The Catapult side torso is an absolute pain to hit. It's always been critical hits in the front centre torso. Critical as in, I've not once died with zero internals left since the patch.

Really? Cool stuff. If I ever feel the burning desire to play a Cat, I'll try this build out.

[Cstriker]

Two questions Hayashi:

What is your kph with XL 300, and how is 1 JJ effective...at anything? I was tempted to keep mine as I do like being able to get out of range quick and this **** in that BIG time.

[Golden Sentinel]

Cstriker, on 16 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Two questions Hayashi:

What is your kph with XL 300, and how is 1 JJ effective...at anything? I was tempted to keep mine as I do like being able to get out of range quick and this **** in that BIG time.

If I recall, a 300XL gets you something in the low 70s for speed. I run a standard 300 on my C4 with 4 streaks and 2 mediums, and that's the speed I get. I have tried a build like the OPs, and it's pretty effective. I just downgraded the engine though to fit things. I have a 300XL lying around on another mech so I may pull it and try the LRM/SRM combo again.

Regarding jump jets, there is no benefit to >1 Jump Jet currently. One gets you just as much as 10. It's something the devs know about and they'll eventually fix it I guess to make it so you need more jump jets.

Edited by Golden Sentinel, 16 November 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Hauser]

Very interesting build! I like to see people use LRMs medium range.

I will try a lighter version of this build on a HBK-4J.

Edited by Hauser, 16 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Hayashi]

Cstriker, on 16 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Two questions Hayashi: What is your kph with XL 300, and how is 1 JJ effective...at anything? I was tempted to keep mine as I do like being able to get out of range quick and this **** in that BIG time.

XL 300 is 80.4 KPH after speed tweak, 74.8 KPH before. To be perfectly honest, the initial reason why I used it was because it was the maximum engine I could fit in my Jenners - the previous chassis I used prior to the Catapults, but it turned out to be a rather sweet spot even on the Catapult by coincidence. Putting an engine that's too heavy will result in being able to carry less ammo, and the LRM15s are already kind of lacking ammo as it is now... whereas putting an engine that's too light will result in you being too slow to maintain the optimal 180-270m distance from Mechs that you can't kill with 2 MPLAS + 2 SSRM2 alone. Right now, you can maintain the distance and outdamage any Mech I know of except a Gausscat at that range (61 alpha per 4 seconds (approx... it's actually 3.5s and 4.25s) spread amongst various components + destruction via AMS + missing missiles usually ends up at about 20-24 damage in that timing to the enemy's Centre Torso, which is higher than most, but lower than the Gausscat's 30 per 4 seconds).... and if something can catch up to you, it's either a light that has insufficient firepower or armour or both to fight you, or a massively up-engined CN9-D variant that has laughable firepower with acceptable armour).

The JJ's function is not to allow you to fly, but to allow you to turn quickly and to offset falls. Applying jump jets in short bursts while turning massively improves your turn radius - this combined with the Catapult's torso twist angle makes it possible for you to outturn any Mech except the best Jenner pilots (and that single variant of the Raven that has jump jets). This is important for the occasions in which Lights try to kill you - if your turn radius is too bad, they will stay 180 degrees behind your legs, making it impossible for your weapons to hit them. It also helps for firing against larger mechs when running away and firing, but I wouldn't say it is necessary for that, though it helps.

Right now, the JJ system is a bit borked in that 1 JJ has equal functionality to 5 JJ. But sooner or later this is going to be patched - JJ less than max will have a fraction of either the burn length or the lift power of the full complement. Since that day is going to come, I will recommend strongly against developing a habit of using JJ to fly into the sky, or you might be in for a rude shock when that happens.

EDIT

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It occurs to me that one other mech build can kill this in a 1 on 1, other than the Gausscat. That is, the Swayback.

[MacroPhotoFly]

Nice post. This build is restoring my faith in the game after the lag shield was removed in the most recent patch - giving everyone with less lag the ability to wipe me

[Hayashi]

You're still able to use it? Recently ECM seems to have erased the potential of the build for me.

Pity, it was very, very fun before that came along.

[MacroPhotoFly]

The latest patch has severely weakenned ECM. It's the reason I came looking for a different mech and found this post. In my Raven I now get cut down

[Hayashi]

Maybe replace one MPLAS with TAG, it might improve it a bit.

Edited by Hayashi, 11 March 2013 - 05:37 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

Still don't understand how could anyone have the balls to load homing missiles without a TAG.

Also it feels weird to see Touhou elements in BT universe, but that's just me.

Edited by Helmstif, 11 March 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[Hayashi]

For every dakka, there must be someone who can avoid the dakka.

[BeatSmart]

been using this build (more or less) for a few days ... other than a crappier engine std 245 - 61.1 max speed on my setup(cant afford an xl yet) its been a lot of fun ... I like being able to fight off the lights and lrm anyone else not using cover properly.

anyway ... thanks for the build ... I'm still terrible but im having a lot of fun with my c4 this build and mwo in general!

[Hayashi]

I realised yesterday that if you get the Advanced Sensor Range module, it will erase the effects of ECM within this build's optimum damage range. =P