51 replies to this topic

[clanwolf3050]

Taizan, on 15 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I don't get why my heat rating goes down when I equip the flamer instead of improving? It doesn't generate much heat at all.
I'd really like the flamer to actually shoot out some flaming gel that sticks to the mech for a while before extinguishing, lets say for 5-10 seconds (would need balancing of course). This would make it an ideal weapon for people who enjoy hit & run tactics.

That would be an SRM inferno munition. Good times for all the terran and 'mech flaming needs. Inferno munition replaced the normal SRM warhead, instead of doing damage it would light stuff of fire. It has the same range as SRMs. 'Mechs and most terran would burn for a period of time while buildings and woods would just burn the rest of the match.

Edited by clanwolf3050, 15 November 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[Jason1138]

i've been killed by both flamers and MG's, so i wouldn't say they're useless

not the best choices for sure but they can and do hurt people

[Screech]

Jason1138, on 15 November 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

i've been killed by both flamers and MG's

Wow talk about unlucky. Have you ever been struck by lighting?

[Vassago Rain]

Jason1138, on 15 November 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

i've been killed by both flamers and MG's, so i wouldn't say they're useless

not the best choices for sure but they can and do hurt people

Did you stand still for 10 minutes?

[Silra]

I put 3 MGs on chain fire with enough ammo to hold the button down for about 6-7 minutes, along with the Large Lasers, on my Hunchback once. I scored two killing blows with the MGs after both my LL-toting arms had been shot off.

Also ran my HBK-4P with 1 Med Laser in the head and 8 Flamers. It's fun to make people shut down after they fire a couple times.

Bad guns but can give you absolutely hillarious time. Just like a COM-1B with 2 PPCs and STD100 engine.

[KhanCipher]

vifoxe, on 15 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Gauss and ML. Just like the TT

if only we had armor piercing AC ammo...

[Imagine Dragons]

Silra, on 15 November 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

I put 3 MGs on chain fire

Umm...

I'm pretty sure chain fire on MGs hobbles the RoF badly...

You will probably end up shooting 6 bullets per second instead of like... 30...

[aspect]

I threw 8 flamers on my laserboat for laughs yesterday and completed a match on forest. I was first into the fray, and sat with them on full against the back of an atlas for a good 10 seconds at one point when he tried to run away from the mouth of the tunnel. I don't think I've had my weapons on fire that much in any other game...with my 10 engine DHS and 10 external DHS I could keep them going for a long time without taking a break. Anyway, we won the match decisively and I think it's possible that me running around at 81kph spraying fire at the largest mechs was enough to distract them to some extent. At the end of the match, the top half of the team was in the 400-600 dmg range. My damage score? 88.

So, in the extremely unlikely event that you play a match where flamers are the ideal tool for a very specific role, then they have some merit. Otherwise, not so much.

[SpiralRazor]

Its not really a balance issue either.

Machine guns, like the AC/2, could have been made effective and still not own people during the CBT.

Same with Flamers.


[REDACTED]

Edited by RAM, 15 November 2012 - 10:59 AM.
Insults

[Joseph Mallan]

SpiralRazor, on 14 November 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Are still useless.


Care to answer Bryan, or Russ? I know you both know who I am, and I think the community deserves to know why youre guys are having such difficulty balancing things? Paul, youre exempted, because I already know from talking with you that you know what needs to be done.

Cause MGs are pop guns in BattelTech/MechWarrior? And flame throwers are for roasting marshmallows or cooking hot dogs. MGs and flamers were used in CBT for Infantry and Vehicles. We ain't got no PBI and Vees!

Firestarter:

Quote

The Firestarter carries four Purity L-series Flamers for incendiary work. The Flamers can set fire to anything that can burn very quickly. For additional anti-personnel work, the Firestarter has two Deprus RF Machine Guns which, combined with the Flamers, can make short work of infantry units. The Firestarter carries two Magna Mk II Medium Lasers for when it is forced to engage hard targets like vehicles and other BattleMechs.[/color]

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 November 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 November 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Cause MGs are pop guns in BattelTech/MechWarrior? And flame throwers are for roasting marshmallows or cooking hot dogs. MGs and flamers were used in CBT for Infantry and Vehicles. We ain't got no PBI and Vees!

I do enjoy the prospect of using a machine gun thats twice as heavy as a GAU-8 on infantry...

With a RPM (rounds per minute) 2/3s of that of a M4 carbine...

Riiight...

[shintakie]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 November 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Cause MGs are pop guns in BattelTech/MechWarrior? And flame throwers are for roasting marshmallows or cooking hot dogs. MGs and flamers were used in CBT for Infantry and Vehicles. We ain't got no PBI and Vees!

Firestarter:

Are you daft or do you not know how to read?

Sayin somethin is effective at killin X does not mean it can not do Y.

In TT (god I hate usin this argument) MG's got a bonus to infantry. They did not get a penalty to mechs. This means they were better against infantry, not that they were **** against mechs.

Readin comprehension is frggin key yo.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Shiney, on 15 November 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

'Fixing' is ONLY a database entry change, I laugh at how difficult it is, how time consuming it would be, how much more important things they have to do and the schedule of what to do next. It is [and you can find a quote to that effect] a server side database entry change.

Kinda like how easy it is for them to change the value of DHS to 1.4 without messing up the ones in the engine?

Oh, wait.....

shintakie, on 15 November 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Are you daft or do you not know how to read?

Sayin somethin is effective at killin X does not mean it can not do Y.

In TT (god I hate usin this argument) MG's got a bonus to infantry. They did not get a penalty to mechs. This means they were better against infantry, not that they were **** against mechs.

Readin comprehension is frggin key yo.

Exactly. The MG did 2 damage to mechs, just like the AC2. The AC2 is basicly a *very* long range MG against mechs. The MG also fills the same role as the small laser (in TT at least), the role of a short range "filler" weapon. The MG should do 2/3 the damage of a small laser, comparable range (or exact), ammo limited and no heat. There are several ways they can do it, but the current implementation is not it.

[wanderer]

Taizan, on 15 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I don't get why my heat rating goes down when I equip the flamer instead of improving? It doesn't generate much heat at all.
I'd really like the flamer to actually shoot out some flaming gel that sticks to the mech for a while before extinguishing, lets say for 5-10 seconds (would need balancing of course). This would make it an ideal weapon for people who enjoy hit & run tactics.

Battletech actually has these in missile form in 3049- Inferno SRMs. Fact is, in the original rules, that's exactly what they did- effectively, it raised the target's heat +6 (so .6/sec in MWO terms) for about 30 seconds. Later on, it was changed to a simple one-turn heat effect, but you could stack more missiles to increase the intensity (+2 heat/missile, maximum +15 heat effect) but not the duration.

[Reoh]

XenomorphZZ, on 15 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

This is true in the board game. Or a mechwarrior game that exactly adapted critical hit rules from TT.

However, when a piece of equipment was "crited" it would instantly be disabled (aside from engines)

In mwo, equipment have 10 hp, when an equipment is "crited" the critting damage is multiplied by 1x or 2x or 3x.

Considering one bullet from the MG does 0.04 damage...

Oh I completely forgot about that, thanks for reminding me about the hp the items have.

[Clay Pigeon]

Doubling MG damage and doubling range would be a good start.

Flamers aren't so easy, because of heat issues.

[RIFT]

SpiralRazor, on 14 November 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Are still useless.


Care to answer Bryan, or Russ? I know you both know who I am, and I think the community deserves to know why youre guys are having such difficulty balancing things? Paul, youre exempted, because I already know from talking with you that you know what needs to be done.

So you are making demands of people making a FREE game that is in BETA? WTF, is it just me or are you NUTZ? What other FREE things do you whine about?

[shintakie]

Clay Pigeon, on 15 November 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Doubling MG damage and doubling range would be a good start.

Flamers aren't so easy, because of heat issues.

No need to double the range. Its supposed to be the ballistic equivalent of the small laser. Doublin the range makes it somethin completely different.

[Rippthrough]

There are two very easy ways to balance machineguns.

They are:

A) Double the rate of fire. DPS moves to where it should be, ultimate damage potential unchanged as the ammo drops twice as fast. As the ammo is heavier than the gun itself it'll also stop boating as lots of ammo will be heavier compared to the guns.

OR:

Give it 1000m range at it's current fire rate. Making it still pretty poor damage wise, but very useful as a weapon to fill that last bit of spare tonnage and annoy/distract guass/LRM boaters.

[Sethalos]

OPEN BETA!! - These things will get fixed...patience is required. There are so many issues with the client, the clipping/rubber banding, gameplay/balance/visuals, and general bugs that require some love, and there are so many hours in a day for the dev's to code the fixes.

Patience.