90 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

I'm not under any illusion that the *majority* of games are still 8-man teams versus randoms, but the fact that the match maker *can* force randoms to fight 8-man teams is fundamentally broken.

If you're gonna do something, don't do it half way, or allow it to be exploited.

[Zyllos]

Look, they did this phase only to help the puggers vs pre-mades. This is supposely going to COMPLETELY fix itself on the 20th, with the new patch.

You can wait 5 more days.

And there are going to be MANY more changes to MM moving forward, hopefully.

Edited by Zyllos, 15 November 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Kdogg788]

Yeah, we found ourselves (2 of us) last night fighting alongside 3 Skye Rangers guys. It was a ridiculous roll. Three lights that came up on us and instead of disengaging thought they could take the whole team. Didn't work out well for them. We pretty much advanced through their whole team in about 2 or 3 minutes. Don't worry, this will be less frequent in phase 2, which would likely place those 2 and 3 player premades on opposite sides.

-k

[Lefty Lucy]

Zyllos, on 15 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Look, they did this phase only to help the puggers vs pre-mades. This is supposely going to COMPLETELY fix itself on the 20th, with the new patch.

You can wait 5 more days.

And there are going to be MANY more changes to MM moving forward, hopefully.

I think lots of pre-mades are going to stick with fighting PUGs when they find out that fighting other pre-mades is hard.

[MaddMaxx]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think lots of pre-mades are going to stick with fighting PUGs when they find out that fighting other pre-mades is hard.

Word is that that won't/shouldn't happen or be possible. Folks may/will have to wait longer but a Pre-made that clicks Launch, will always launch against other pre-mades already launched into the queue.

Remember, in phase 2, only those 4's that become Full 8's (no partials allowed) partials above 4 will be Matched against "only" other partials or full 8's.

Those 4's that don't go full 8's will always only fill with Solo's. (iirc)

Any solo Launches will get queued and grouped up by the system to form Pug 8's.

Edited due to: A Dev change of heart I guess.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 16 November 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Taryys]

Synch dropping is possible.
I agree this should be shut down to 4 premade + 4 PUGs

Hopefully, with 20th's update this will be fixed.

[Sikosis]

this whole match-making screw up will more than likely be removed completely once they figure out proper game modes and match-making based on skill & weight . . .

the current system is nothing but a killjoy designed to screw with friends whom want to play with friends. As I said before it was implemented, the proposed changes do nothing to reduce or fix pub/pug vs pre it just scrambles ALL of us to complete hell, that giving them enough time to breath, versus telling everyone to shut up and change their play style or not and deal with it . . . so yet again, here we are with the WRONG fix, that is proving to be what we thought it was, nothing worth our time or their effort.

[Tarman]

The current matcher is less stupid than the last nothing of a one, but still crappier than anything useful. There's still not any kind of parity or good grouping, though for the units themselves in that story above that must still have been funny.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm not under any illusion that the *majority* of games are still 8-man teams versus randoms, but the fact that the match maker *can* force randoms to fight 8-man teams is fundamentally broken.

If you're gonna do something, don't do it half way, or allow it to be exploited.

I have to disagree. I have seen to many clues that when We drop we drop with PUGs. I do know that occasionally we drop with another team. tell tales are they stay together, rally, and provide cover fire and targeting info. It's not pandemic its not even epidemic. But I do miss the rest of my team!

[Lefty Lucy]

Sikosis, on 15 November 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

this whole match-making screw up will more than likely be removed completely once they figure out proper game modes and match-making based on skill & weight . . .

the current system is nothing but a killjoy designed to screw with friends whom want to play with friends. As I said before it was implemented, the proposed changes do nothing to reduce or fix pub/pug vs pre it just scrambles ALL of us to complete hell, that giving them enough time to breath, versus telling everyone to shut up and change their play style or not and deal with it . . . so yet again, here we are with the WRONG fix, that is proving to be what we thought it was, nothing worth our time or their effort.

I disagree. I find that both pre-made and PUG play is much more satisfying post-round1, due to increased chance to be on the same side as a pre-made as a PUG player, and increased chance to play against a pre-made as a pre-made player.

I just think that allowing the system to be so easily exploitable by people who want easy wins is broken.

[Mu]

MaddMaxx, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Word is that that won't be possible. Folks may have to wait longer but a Pre-made that clicks Launch, will always launch against another pre-mades launched into the queue. Remember in phase 2 only 4's that become Full 8's (no partials) will Match against "only" other 8's.

Any solo Launches will get grouped up by the system.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see any indication that they are doing something other than putting in the 8v8 only option. Even excluding intentional sync drops, it will still be entirely possible for two groups of 4 to fight one group of 4 and some randoms. Not saying this will always automatically result in a win for the one with two teams of 4, but when 50% of solo players are in gimpy trial mechs or simply kill themselves at the start it makes it that much harder to overcome.

Also, a lot of people aren't grouping because they want a challenge. They WILL ignore the 8v8 queue if the rewards are not worthwhile. It's cute that people are naive enough to believe all the full teams only want an even fight and not just to stomp you to get cbills faster. I forsee atrocious queue times, lots of 'failed to find a match' and people splitting back up into teams of 4 to get their grinding done.

Personally I'd rather fight organized players and lose as long as its our fault and not just us losing the pug lottery. But it'd be nice if hard-fought battles also came with appropriate rewards - maybe adjust salvage upwards?

[Lyteros]

I dont really understand why people dont see the bigger picture with the matchmaking and are so fixed on "OMG PREMADES ARE THE DEVIL"...

If you take 8 players out of their premade, that normally play with TS3 and randomly throw them in a pug game with only the chat (each from another team) they will still roflstomp 99% of the PuGs they get matched against. TS3 just improves communication speed and availability - a few words in the chat do well. "Premade" has nothing to do with it, its just a scapegoat.

Its about balancing sides - the will to communicate and work together is just part of skill and quality of a player, skill in movement, firing, using cover, twisting correctly... and much more comes on top. You think a first timer does better with a TS3? You think someone with a new drivers licences does better because he got 17" rims instead of stock 15"?

Artificially reducing the count of players changes nothing, because you still have the matchmaking going nuts and matching first time newbies in 80 ton trial mechs against 500+ game founders in their 16 mio XL custom ride with gold plated gaussammo. (or now the XL engine atlas K, which gets cored with a side torso gone and beeing at a heat efficiency just slighty above a burning oil drum)

Upgrading the MM to ELO / taking player skill into account for matchmaking purposes will start fixing things (I suspect it will take a while before its running well) and ******** about Premades will not.

I'm a PuG myself btw, before anyone comes yelling... Only play with ONE friend teamed up from time to time, with no TS3 at all.

[Kunae]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think lots of pre-mades are going to stick with fighting PUGs when they find out that fighting other pre-mades is hard.

Actually, it's going to be more to punish people who whined about MM in the first place, and got the drop-groups restricted to 4-mans.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I'm not going to type out the way you can currently exploit the system, but you can help o force 8-man teams with the current system, and only by reproducing this force will you be able to break the Phase 2 matchmaking as well. That might allow the 8-man teams to go forth against PUGs if PGI doesn't cap the number of small premades per team to a total of 5 pre-grouped players. (a couple 2-man teams, or a 3-man and a 2-man, or a single 4-man would be the only allowed combos for a PUG team).

... but it will all be completely irrelevant when Community Warfare drops, anyways.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 November 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Peg Leg Pete]

Firstly, It has been plainly stated that the current matchmaking is a temporary stopgap measure and is going away. It was put in to reduce the PugCrush until they can fully fix the matchmaker.

Lefty Lucy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think lots of pre-mades are going to stick with fighting PUGs when they find out that fighting other pre-mades is hard.

Most Premades I've been in and spoken with prefer other premades. We were actually coordinating drops yesterday of 6-8 groups so that we could put in games with and against each other. We had several instances where we had all 16 people from our same group. (If you have proper mech composition in your 4 man group and launch simultaneously you can often get in the same match)


If you are still getting stomped, you might have also had a good plan that got countered. Simply put, if your team rolls hard with attack plan "Rock", you are gonna murder the other team if they went attack plan "Scissors" But you get WTFMate rolled compliments of Paper.

[Vactus]

Honestly this is kind of moot. Until we know what Phase 2 looks like, after Tuesday there shouldn't be pre-made vs PuGs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Vactus, on 15 November 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Honestly this is kind of moot. Until we know what Phase 2 looks like, after Tuesday there shouldn't be pre-made vs PuGs.

Phase 2 includes 4-man premades vs PUGs. That part carries over from Phase 1, and that's the part that might be further exploited.

Phase 2 should (as a suggestion) cap the number of pre-grouped players on a PUG team (to 4 or 5), or cap the number of Premades on the PUG teams at 1.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 November 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[JeepStuff]

MaddMaxx, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Word is that that won't/shouldn't happen or be possible. Folks may/will have to wait longer but a Pre-made that clicks Launch, will always launch against other pre-mades already launched into the queue.

I don't think this is accurate. Premades of 4 or less will drop against Pugs. Premades between 4 and 8 will drop against another premade between 4 and 8. What isn't clear is what happens if you are exactly 4, because it seems that the description allows a group of 4 to EITHER drop into a pug match OR a premade match -- it's not clear which.

MaddMaxx, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Remember, in phase 2, only those 4's that become Full 8's (no partials allowed) will be Matched against "only" other full/converted 8's.

I don't think this is accurate either. Premades of 4 (?), 5, 6, 7, or 8 will drop against another premade of 4 (?), 5, 6, 7, or 8, and the sides don't need to be even from what I understand. A premade of 6 could drop against a premade of 8, for example. And the classes aren't matched either, so 6 lights could drop against 8 atlases as well, from what I understand.

MaddMaxx, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Those 4's that don't go full 8's will always only fill with Solo's. (iirc)

Again, I don't think so. One of the devs specifically said that two premades of 4 could drop on one side and all pugs could drop on the other side. It's unlikely, but possible. And if you try to coordinate your drops, you increase your chances of it happening.

MaddMaxx, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Any solo Launches will get queued and grouped up by the system to form Pug 8's.

Nope, sorry. See all of the above responses.

I'm 99% sure I read all of this in other threads, but I didn't paste any links here. If you strongly disagree, let me know and I'll dig up the links.

[Omigir]

Team work is op! even if half the group is not coordinating with the other half, its still op!

I say Nerf PUGs, they are 100% the problem of why Pre-Mades are so good. If I had 1 Cbill for every tim a PUG shot me in the back for suggesting trying to form a plan of action, I would own the federated common wealth

[LogicSol]

Prosperity Park, on 15 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Phase 2 includes 4-man premades vs PUGs. That part carries over from Phase 1, and that's the part that might be further exploited.

Phase 2 should cap the number of pre-grouped players on a PUG team (to 4 or 5), or cap the number of Premades on the PUG teams at 1.

It's actually 3 man premade v pugs.
4 and up go to the team queue.