90 replies to this topic

[Greyfyl]

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

What they need to do is chunk the whole idea of premie and pug. It's an experience and teamwork issue not a "voip" issue.

Teamwork and VOIP go hand in hand though - you can't deny the HUGE advantage of VOIP vs typing.

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Dropping new players against new players (Solaris 7 training program anyone?) would be a huge start.
ELO MM (which is on its way) will go a long way eventually but everyone will start on even ground with ELO and it will take some time for players to get a good solid baseline for their ELO in order to even out the drops.

I would agree with you 1000% on everything you said here.

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

I just get really tired of being called names, told I'm the reason the game will fail, especially when I go out of my way to help new players when I can. Just because someone uses voip doesn't mean they're trying to stomp anyone. It means we enjoy the social aspect and shooting the bs with one another in between games.

You really need to read and try to comprehend what I wrote. I like doing premades myself now and again - it can be fun for many reasons other than the fact that it makes the game so easy to win. I get it, really I do. But the simple fact is that we all knew that PGI messed up by going open beta without matchmaking.

We all knew what that meant for new players - hell there were numerous threads from hardcore players that did nothing but premades begging the community to take it easy on the new players coming in. I blame PGI for throwing the new players into that mess, but I don't see how the 'premade community' can't see that they share at least some of that responsibility. Seriously.

[Sandpit]

Greyfyl, on 17 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Teamwork and VOIP go hand in hand though - you can't deny the HUGE advantage of VOIP vs typing.



I would agree with you 1000% on everything you said here.



You really need to read and try to comprehend what I wrote. I like doing premades myself now and again - it can be fun for many reasons other than the fact that it makes the game so easy to win. I get it, really I do. But the simple fact is that we all knew that PGI messed up by going open beta without matchmaking.

We all knew what that meant for new players - hell there were numerous threads from hardcore players that did nothing but premades begging the community to take it easy on the new players coming in. I blame PGI for throwing the new players into that mess, but I don't see how the 'premade community' can't see that they share at least some of that responsibility. Seriously.

I didn't mean to specifically point at you in regards to screaming ath people who play in premades. It's pretty common to see several people blaming the "ruin" of the game on that and begin the screaming and name calling at people who actually like to jump into a group on TS. Don't get me wrong, there are people who premie and do the same thing to people who don't want to do the whole group thing.

I don't think it's a HUGE advantage but of course being able to say "Target Alpha" is much more convenient than typing and more efficient BUT even when C3 is implemented in game what of those that turn it off? It's a choice to not use voice communications and those that choose to use it shouldn't be hung and quartered. It's a ridiculous idea to blame VOIP for losses and such.

Even still, I think both sides of teh argument want the same thing they just see different reasons the problem is there and different approaches to fixing it. The bottom line is teamwork and communication (VOIP or otherwise) will ALWAYS win out over poor teamwork and I think more than a few just look for things to blame their poor performance on instead of improving their ability to play the game as well as those that just want an "easy" button so they can win regardless of how well they play the game and use tactics.

I equate it to the same types of players that buy a new game and immediately search for cheat codes and run through the game on the easiest level in a single player game and then wonder why they get their butts handed to them when they try to play it online

[Teralitha]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think lots of pre-mades are going to stick with fighting PUGs when they find out that fighting other pre-mades is hard.

Nope. Rolling pugs is dull and boring.

[Lefty Lucy]

Teralitha, on 17 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Nope. Rolling pugs is dull and boring.

I agree. Do you think all of the guys that use the TS servers, but aren't part of an organized group, agree as well?

Any game that has had a hard mode has had far fewer players participating in that mode. Think of Trammel vs. Felucca in Ultima Online, or Hardcore Mode on Diablo II.

People like you and me, we like a challenge and legit competition. We represent a small portion of the player base.

[Stargoat]

Should this be extended to premades of only one or two players?

I think it's a fairly complex issue. Perhaps the answer lies in allowing more than one premade /group/ to drop on the same team, but limit the total number of players in premade groups on that team (say, to 5? players total)

[Sandpit]

Lefty Lucy, on 17 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

I agree. Do you think all of the guys that use the TS servers, but aren't part of an organized group, agree as well?

Any game that has had a hard mode has had far fewer players participating in that mode. Think of Trammel vs. Felucca in Ultima Online, or Hardcore Mode on Diablo II.

People like you and me, we like a challenge and legit competition. We represent a small portion of the player base.

You always make blanket statements Lucy. I just don't see why you constantly state that the majority of players on TS are like that

[Lefty Lucy]

Sandpit, on 18 November 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

You always make blanket statements Lucy. I just don't see why you constantly state that the majority of players on TS are like that

Based on playing games for a very, very long time. I'm not saying that every one of the players that uses public TS3 servers is like that, but I'm willing to bet, statistically, that *most* of them are.

[Sandpit]

I don't think we will ever know either way.

I do know that TS isn't the reason for mismatches. Nor is it the reason players get stomped. I can drop (and have dropped) in pugs on a regular basis and giving a few suggestions at the beginning of the match and getting everyone to stick together and use a little strategy goes a loooooooooooooong way

Almost every time I've been involved in being stomped it is more due to teh fact that we have and AFKer or two, suiciders, rambo style players, and/or new players who have no idea what they're doing

[Minos Murdoc]

Really are people still complaining about this. Phase 2 patch in on the 20th - wait a few more days then start complaining.
Yes at the moment you can do sync'd drops of 2 groups of 3 or 4 and be in the same match. but i've ended up going against my own players more than with them (which is fun to be honest).

But the whole pug vs premade thing is cr@p - i've been in matches with pugs against premade and we've wiped them out due to COMMUNICATION in game (yes via text chat). but i would say 80% of pug games i've been in have been lost because

1. No communication or they dont listen to the communication
2. Everyone want to solo the match, because "i is best mech pilot all bow before me"
3. Small groups of 2 or 3 go off do their own thing while rest try to work together
4. Base being capped buy enemy team and lights (or other fast mech) refuse to help and run back to base to slow cap while reinforcements head back. normally because they are too busy with "i want to kill this assault/heavy, who cares if base is being capped"

The only difference to a premade or good pug team and a normal pug match is the first two communicate and work together.

[Calmon]

We usually join as 6-8 men team when we hit the 'launch' button.

I wonder why. We group 3-4 men together and for a strange reason we play on same site most of time.

Matchmaking seems pretty dump.

[Lefty Lucy]

Calmon, on 18 November 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

We usually join as 6-8 men team when we hit the 'launch' button. I wonder why. We group 3-4 men together and for a strange reason we play on same site most of time. Matchmaking seems pretty dump.

Yeah, lots of times when I'm in a group, we end up dropping on the same side as another group. I'd really prefer to always drop *against* another group.