77 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Just curious

I play strictly Jenner's all makes all models. Its all I have done for the last 9 or so months. They have come along way. IMHO I would say they are pretty close to balanced. Now I say this knowing that Knockdown, and the Lag shield are making us more powerful than we really are. I feel that once those two items are addressed Jenners will be where they need to be. They can pack a punch however at a cost, they can fill the anti scout roll, and they can make a perfect scout once all the tools are in. So knowing that knockdown will effect us tremendously and our lag shield gives us certain protection. I believe we are close to balanced once those are addressed.

Thoughts?

[TruePoindexter]

The hit detection issues are interesting because they only effect some people. Ever since 1.0 I've never had a problem hitting Jenners with weapon fire but I know a lot of people still can't hit them. Once all the hit issues are out of the way I think they'll be fine.

Knockdown may make them too weak in my view. I remember lights falling over in a strong breeze before and if it could be done reliably... well.. good bye lights.

[Revorn]

Lets talk again if Lagshield is gone and Knockdown is back.

[Darian DelFord]

Well can't attest to the lag shield but pretty sure before the year is out Knockdown will be back. However as posted above I hope not as badly as it initially was.

In folks opinion are those two things what makes Jenners "OP"?

[DrxAbstract]

Once they reintroduce knockdowns it's going to be a nightmare having to deal with not only other lights but every player that just drives through their teammates/enemies without care. I see them every match, do my best to avoid collisions with everything and am comfortable knowing this will have a minor effect on me personally.

I am more concerned with the current netcode, since i dont really know how many of my opponents are missing right now because of it rather than me hopping around terrain and hillhumping. Something like that is going to take a bit more adjustment, where i can only guess to what extent; time will tell. Hopefully it will result in taking more enemy fire and less friendly fire - a nice, semi-level shift in damage reception.

I can understand people's difficulty with fighting fast lights; while it only takes me one or two shots to lock in on someone's sweetspot, that's easily done for me and using lasers, but ballistics, SRMs and for others... not so much. It might just be that little boost that some people need to get on their feet and be more confident with the trigger.

As a whole, i think it will make little difference to those who play Lights with confident deftness but make/break those who arent as comfortable with them yet, or have become accustomed to the advantages those two features have granted.

[Revorn]

For the genneral Balancing Question i may talk about my Cent.

I am much slower than Jenners, and cant carry as much Lasers as Jenners. Ok, i have a bit more Amor, but does this realy count against then less Weapons and less Speed?

Edit: i forgott, i have no Jumpjets.

Edited by Revorn, 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Scurge]

I put 12 ER PPC shots in several jenners and none have so much as started to smoke or lost a weapon. Yes they were in effective range and i've killed other things including an Atlats in the back with just 8 shots.

[Velba]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

For the genneral Balancing Question i may talk about my Cent.

I am much slower than Jenners, and cant carry as much Lasers as Jenners. Ok, i have a bit more Amor, but does this realy count against then less Weapons and less Speed?

Edit: i forgott, i have no Jumpjets.

I run 4xMedPulse 2xSRM4+Art 85Kph and Max armor....


I'm a 50 ton mech with cap assist.


What makes you think this isn't balanced?

[DrxAbstract]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

For the genneral Balancing Question i may talk about my Cent.

I am much slower than Jenners, and cant carry as much Lasers as Jenners. Ok, i have a bit more Amor, but does this realy count against then less Weapons and less Speed?

Edit: i forgott, i have no Jumpjets.

When Jenners can mount AC20's, Gauss or Autocannons in general or big energy weapons with the heat capacity to use more than 1 of them, then you can compare the two. Currently, you're comparing apples to oranges.

[Revorn]

As far as i know, a Jenner can carry up to 4 Medlasers and 2 SRMweapons. Looks pretty equal to what an Cent can handle. The heavier Weapons arent as Usefull imho. Exept the Gauss under some circumstances.

So my feeling is, that a Jenner can carry equal Weapons at higher Speed and Maneuverbility but less Amor. In an one vs one, i guess, the Jenner simply Outmaneuver the Cent and beat him. But thats only my Point of view.

[Eboli]

I agree with Darian's comments. 99% Jenner player myself and I think that the Jenner is quite balanced. No collisions at the moment gives us a lot of advantage but I try to avoid colliding into mechs as I know that collisions will be coming back in and learning to avoid bad habits will be very important.

New players who have got used to no collisions will be the most affected.

Certainly no need to look at them until after collisions is brought back in.

Cheers!

[Trynn]

@Revorn,

I have seen good Jenner pilots destroy opposing mechs almost at will even multiples and taking on any weight class( watching a buddy while in spectator mode) granted bad jenner pilots are almost instant Kibble, but a decent Jenner piot I would give better than 50-50 Odds against good pilots in any weight class.

Once the Netcode is fixed we will see if Jenners and Commondos need to start showing a little respect or not,

In reguards to Knockdowns, That certainly can help with a slightly over eager Light, but is laso the bane of PUGS as no one seems to care, and not be aware of who or what is around them.

In general I agree with the OP that they should be good as they are when the code and knockback are brought up to speed (pardon the pun)

[DrxAbstract]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

As far as i know, a Jenner can carry up to 4 Medlasers and 2 SRMweapons. Looks pretty equal to what an Cent can handle. The heavier Weapons arent as Usefull imho. Exept the Gauss under some circumstances.

So my feeling is, that a Jenner can carry equal Weapons at higher Speed and Maneuverbility but less Amor. In an one vs one, i guess, the Jenner simply Outmaneuver the Cent and beat him. But thats only my Point of view.

Play a 300XL Jenner with 4 Med Lasers and 2 SRM4s with 2 tons of ammo for no less than 10 games, then return here and make an assessment.

I have, and i can tell you it's not even remotely an ideal setup. You have to either use a much slower engine, sacrifice too much armor or dump a lot of heat dissipation to make the build, which results in running very hot even in cold maps with sparse weapons use and if you dumped armor or engine size to add 1 or 2 more DHS you'll still be running hot plus being slower and easier to kill. So yes we can run with a massive payload, if we wanted, but it wouldnt be viable. Double SRM4 heat is no joke, combined with quad Mlas you'll be wishing for something else. You would want at least 14 DHS to run a 4 Mlas by themselves, while double SRM4s would take 15 minimum.

[Revorn]

Iam sure i can live with Jenners as they are, once the Code is fixed and the Knockdowns are back. I only wanted to show, that they have a realy good Weaponloadout.

Thanks for this Feedback DrxAbstract, i didnt know the Heatperformance of a Jenner with that Loadout.

Edited by Revorn, 15 November 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

As far as i know, a Jenner can carry up to 4 Medlasers and 2 SRMweapons. Looks pretty equal to what an Cent can handle. The heavier Weapons arent as Usefull imho. Exept the Gauss under some circumstances.

So my feeling is, that a Jenner can carry equal Weapons at higher Speed and Maneuverbility but less Amor. In an one vs one, i guess, the Jenner simply Outmaneuver the Cent and beat him. But thats only my Point of view.

Jenner's can't mount the same armor and heatsinks. Jenners are at best flanking strikers in combat. They can carry a surprising amount of firepower but have no longevity. In a real fight where the Jenner can't run away to cooldown/disengage I would expect the Hunchback or Cent to win every single time.

DrxAbstract, on 15 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Play a 300XL Jenner with 4 Med Lasers and 2 SRM4s with 2 tons of ammo for no less than 10 games, then return here and make an assessment.

I have, and i can tell you it's not even remotely an ideal setup. You have to either use a much slower engine, sacrifice too much armor or dump a lot of heat dissipation to make the build, which results in running very hot even in cold maps with sparse weapons use and if you dumped armor or engine size to add 1 or 2 more DHS you'll still be running hot plus being slower and easier to kill. So yes we can run with a massive payload, if we wanted, but it wouldnt be viable. Double SRM4 heat is no joke, combined with quad Mlas you'll be wishing for something else. You would want at least 14 DHS to run a 4 Mlas by themselves, while double SRM4s would take 15 minimum.

This. Jenners cannot handle long term engagements with that kind of loadout. This is why the common loadout had been 4x SML 2x Streak SRM2 but even then it had issues with heat in longer fights.

[Revorn]

TruePoindexter, on 15 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

In a real fight where the Jenner can't run away to cooldown/disengage I would expect the Hunchback or Cent to win every single time.

In my experiences, the Jenner alway was able to run away. But after Netcodefixing and Collision is back, i can maybe handle it, to hit the Legs, to avoid such "unfriendly" behaivior.

[Gaeb]

Jenners yes, mechanics (lag shield, collisions, armor doubled, streaks nerf, dynamic slot items favoring lights, jump jet issues) no.

[ICEFANG13]

Players that play Jenners, of course, have to fight other Jenners. I never have a problem hitting them, and if I have to shoot ahead, I can identify it and change the distance correctly. One really important part for lights is the ability to fight other lights. Although there is a lag factor sometimes, we deal with it as well, and the inability to hit them, is mostly based on the mindset (I can't hit him, he is lagging, I cannot win), and the fact that it should be hard to hit a fast who is weaving through you with his skill. And heavies have different skills. Putting yourself in the correct placement is very key, much more than lights, who focus more on dodging. If anything, just run with a teammate (mediums make amazing light guardians for assaults and heavies). If you can deny their movement based on placement, then it becomes a lot harder.

Yes I do pilot a Jenner, and yes, I can be biased (I don't think I am), and yes, sometimes we have to aim ahead, just like you.

Hitbox fix did a lot too, its insane how faster lights die now. Sure its not 100% correct, but at least for now, aim ahead, even with lasers.

[TruePoindexter]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

In my experiences, the Jenner alway was able to run away. But after Netcodefixing and Collision is back, i can maybe handle it, to hit the Legs, to avoid such "unfriendly" behaivior.

You can hit the legs now pretty reliably. Always good fun.

[Revorn]

TruePoindexter, on 15 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

You can hit the legs now pretty reliably. Always good fun.

Maybe u can, i need some more experience to do so. Atm, iam to noobish for that. But better times come, with some more training.

But i agree, should be much fun then.

Edited by Revorn, 15 November 2012 - 04:14 PM.