45 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Per this post:

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/
PPCs will be getting EMP. They need more than that. EMP is just a temporary nuisance... kind of like torso being rocked. I don't think it will help enough. The devs say they are going to look at maybe heat for them--well... sure, that is nice--but, I think there might be a better solution.

1. Keep the heat where it is at... but add splash damage to adjacent sections. Maybe make the splash damage not the full 10... For example:

Say I hit the CT of a Gauss Cat with my PPC. The CT takes 10 damage. The RT/LT take 5 damage each and the LA/RA take maybe 1 damage. Or, maybe not that extreme. Just the immediate adjacent sections. Like I hit CT and do 10, RT/LT take 3 - 5 (make it semi-variable even). If I hit RT, then RT takes 10, RA/CT take 3 - 5.

2. Make PPCs bestow some heat upon the target they hit--say a few points of heat. Not an extreme amount, but a little.

3. EMP. The EMP could go so far as to:

a. Break missile lock.
b. Scramble HUD/Map for several seconds.
c. Lose targeting information.
d. Unzoom on target.
e. Overload Gauss capacitors making them have to cycle again before they can fire... (that might be a little too extreme...).
f. Break NARC beacon lock.

You get the idea. The EMP could do more but that is a start.

Anyways, those are some additional ideas. Thoughts? Ideas?

[Sugalumps]

Two things:
1) Why don't you see what the PPC EMP effects do in-game before complaining that it's not enough?
2) As far as being a temporary "nuisance", people are complaining about torso rocking from ACs, so a well-applied temporary effect can be quite strong. If you chain-fire PPCs on one mech, I could see the EMP effect being quite debilitating.

[soarra]

ppc's shouldnt have emp. they just need to adjust damage/heat


The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy.^[3] As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor.^[4]Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.^[5] The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

[Mister Blastman]

Sugalumps, on 15 November 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Two things:
1) Why don't you see what the PPC EMP effects do in-game before complaining that it's not enough?
2) As far as being a temporary "nuisance", people are complaining about torso rocking from ACs, so a well-applied temporary effect can be quite strong. If you chain-fire PPCs on one mech, I could see the EMP effect being quite debilitating.

You waited to make your first post and say I'm complaining?

I'm offering constructive feedback, that's what I'm doing. The reason I say they aren't enough is because... well... Go play Living Legends. Then come back. Then describe to me how awesome the PPCs are in it--they're perfect. I've played every single Mechwarrior and Living Legends by far does them the most justice.

[Walk]

soarra, on 15 November 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

ppc's shouldnt have emp. they just need to adjust damage/heat


The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy.^[3] As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor.^[4]Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.^[5] The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

[Galland]

In terms of what the PPC can do now, what they need to do is increase the velocity of the shot and make it faster than even an AC/2. Splash damage and/or inducing heat on the target will make it too OP, so the 10 damage it gives right now is adequate. The EMP effect will also help, I think the simple effect of scrambling the hud causing displays to temporarily malfunction and maybe even loss of target lock should be good enough.

[Sugalumps]

Mister Blastman, on 15 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

You waited to make your first post and say I'm complaining?

I'm offering constructive feedback, that's what I'm doing. The reason I say they aren't enough is because... well... Go play Living Legends. Then come back. Then describe to me how awesome the PPCs are in it--they're perfect. I've played every single Mechwarrior and Living Legends by far does them the most justice.

There's nothing to make constructive feedback about, because EMP for PPCs isn't in MWO yet. If it was, and PPCs still felt useless, then I could see where you're coming from. Right now this thread doesn't accomplish anything.
Oh, and post counts mean nothing.

[Mister Blastman]

The reason behind the additional effects though are PPCs are high-heat weapons. Sarna says specifically they have a great deal of waste heat. Why not keep that instead of tweaking it down?

The net result will be PPCs slowly melting targets from afar--much cooler than being a point impact weapon.

Until they fix the stupid Autocannon random direction firing problems, no amount of speed will help them or anything else, for that matter. If something is standing still as well as you and you fire upon them, only to have your projectile go at a 45 degree angle away from your reticle--that is a real problem!

Sugalumps, on 15 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

There's nothing to make constructive feedback about, because EMP for PPCs isn't in MWO yet. If it was, and PPCs still felt useless, then I could see where you're coming from. Right now this thread doesn't accomplish anything.
Oh, and post counts mean nothing.

So what's your real forum name? You're obviously going under an alias...

[Solis Obscuri]

EMP strikes me as a poor solution to a problem that should be fixed by improving the combat performance of the weapon. If it's a little cosmetic thing (HUD flickers/blurs momentarily), then I'm ok with it... the idea of having it disable your electronics, make your weapons lose lock, reset your weapon cooldowns, dump your targeting information, etc, etc doesn't make it a useful long-range sniping/fire support weapon, it makes it a griefing weapon to stun-lock an enemy while you kill them with a "real weapon" (like the Gauss Rifle).

[DrAwkward]

Mister Blastman, on 15 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

You waited to make your first post and say I'm complaining?

I'm offering constructive feedback, that's what I'm doing. The reason I say they aren't enough is because... well... Go play Living Legends. Then come back. Then describe to me how awesome the PPCs are in it--they're perfect. I've played every single Mechwarrior and Living Legends by far does them the most justice.

Your idea is nice and all, but he's right. There is no reason to start complaining now.

No, you are not offering "Constructive Feedback." You titled your thread "PPCs need more than just EMP."
By using the word "need," you're claiming that you know better than the developers. A claim, I might add, that you've made more than once. Even if you were erroneous in your usage here, your history deprives you of the benefit of my doubt.

Let PGI try out their idea, we'll see how it does, they we can actually respond to it. I trust their team a lot more than I trust your hypothetical fixes to an unreleased, unseen patch.

P.S. I played a metric ton of MW:LL, but anyone can see that the way MWO is interpreting the BattleTech universe is different. I would rather the developers try their vision instead of trying to release a clone of MW:LL. Why would anyone want that? That mod is already out and playable.

Edited by DrAwkward, 15 November 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

The main thing PPC's need is instantaneous projectile travel time or near-instant.

EMP + almost hitscan accuracy will make them a very favorable alternative to Gauss.

[MustrumRidcully]

Give them real Double Heat Sinks. Then we have most of the energy weapons balanced against the best ballistics in the game.

THen we may still need to buff ER PPCs in some way (my idea: Lower their Heat to 10 and their ROF to 4).

[Mike McSullivan]

Im also very interested in the emp-effect of the PPCs .
I hated them in the beginning, but now i prefer it even over the Gauss. We shoudnt forget that there will be bigger maps, 12vs12 and so, longer games. That is when the advantage hits. No Ammo!

[Dagger6T6]

PPCs need emp and..

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 15 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Per this post:

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/
PPCs will be getting EMP. They need more than that. EMP is just a temporary nuisance... kind of like torso being rocked. I don't think it will help enough. The devs say they are going to look at maybe heat for them--well... sure, that is nice--but, I think there might be a better solution.

1. Keep the heat where it is at... but add splash damage to adjacent sections. Maybe make the splash damage not the full 10... For example:

Say I hit the CT of a Gauss Cat with my PPC. The CT takes 10 damage. The RT/LT take 5 damage each and the LA/RA take maybe 1 damage. Or, maybe not that extreme. Just the immediate adjacent sections. Like I hit CT and do 10, RT/LT take 3 - 5 (make it semi-variable even). If I hit RT, then RT takes 10, RA/CT take 3 - 5.

2. Make PPCs bestow some heat upon the target they hit--say a few points of heat. Not an extreme amount, but a little.

3. EMP. The EMP could go so far as to:

a. Break missile lock.
b. Scramble HUD/Map for several seconds.
c. Lose targeting information.
d. Unzoom on target.
e. Overload Gauss capacitors making them have to cycle again before they can fire... (that might be a little too extreme...).
f. Break NARC beacon lock.

You get the idea. The EMP could do more but that is a start.

Anyways, those are some additional ideas. Thoughts? Ideas?

Here is the thing .....

PPCs ALREADY splash their damage. That is the number one reason they suck, not the heat, not the speed, but because you cannot count on them to focus damage with any consistency. I have run a stock K2 as one of my main mechs since way back when in closed Beta.

[OpCentar]

Override button for safety system which would allow us to fire them <90m and do damage but every time we fire our PPCs could explode.

Chance for catastrophic failure is subject to balancing.

[Monky]

ER PPC could come down a little bit in heat but not much. Both ER and normal PPC need to be hitscan or very nearly so, the level of heat and damage they inflict for the weight they cost is not worth it if you have a hard time hitting with them.

[Asatruer]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

PPCs ALREADY splash their damage. That is the number one reason they suck, not the heat, not the speed, but because you cannot count on them to focus damage with any consistency. I have run a stock K2 as one of my main mechs since way back when in closed Beta.

I keep hearing that, and I keep being tempted to bring it up in discussions about why dual PPCs are less potent than dual Gauss, but I have never been sure enough about the veracity of the claim. Could you point me to some threads/posts detailing it in a fashion other than just anecdotal?

[Jason1138]

lol @ EMP effects being no big deal. Tell that to LRM and Streak users, it will cripple them

[Bishop Steiner]

Asatruer, on 15 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I keep hearing that, and I keep being tempted to bring it up in discussions about why dual PPCs are less potent than dual Gauss, but I have never been sure enough about the veracity of the claim. Could you point me to some threads/posts detailing it in a fashion other than just anecdotal?

Easiest way is just to run FRAPS and drive an 8Q Awesome or K2 Cat. The Devs, to my knowledge have never acknowledged it, and all we players have been able to do is GUESS at the causs.

This I DO know. Sometimes, I set off a 3xPPC blast and BAM, insta-kill. Other times, I touch off volley after volley of trip-Pepsi hurt, and cause virtually NO damage. And I am not talking at under 90m. Or on a moving target, I am talking holding a dead lock on the hear of a shut down Atlas, Awesome or even Commando, and firing off4-5 or More triple PPC volleys without getting the armor past yellow.

The 2 working theories with most credence seem to be that the PPC blast is damage backloaded, so the damage spreads like a Laser not held on target. OR that the "foot print" of the PPC blast is so wide that instead of focusing damage, it spreads it like an LB-X.

Or some combo of the 2.