So I bought a Hunchback 4H last night with my hard earned cash from trial mech hell. I'm getting the hang of the bay but some things are still very confusing.
Of course the first thing I noticed is that my mech's tonnage is maxed, but there are many free slots. So do most mechs that you buy start similarly as mine? Does this mean that endosteel is basically the first thing I should buy, since it sacrifices slots to give you extra tonnage?
Second: I read that 'critical slots' means that the equipment fills up your 'floating slots', which are apparently slots that aren't tied to a specific part of your mech? If so, where do I see how many floating slots I have available?
Third: my hunchie likes to overheat, so I want to add more heatsinks. Do heatsinks only work on the body part on which they are installed? So if I added heat sinks to the spare slots in my right arm, would they only cool the medium laser that is installed there?
Fourth: what is the deal with modules? I only ask because they made sense, until I saw that you could unlock them with GXP, as well as buy them. Is this just a case of two different ways to unlock the same thing? Or do I have to get enough GXP to unlock the skill, then spend cash to unlock the module?
Last: what is the deal with double heatsinks? So they take up 3x the space, but give 40% more cooling. So if I have space for 6 heatsinks in an arm, but I chose to use double heatsinks, I could only fit two, right? Those two would give the effective dissipation of 2.8 normal heatsinks. Six slots for 600% dissipation, or six slots for 280% dissipation. What am I missing here?
Double-last: is there a chart somewhere showing engine size vs tonnage vs speed? Like, if I can free up 1 ton of space, is it worth jamming in a one size up engine? Or does that spare tonnage increase my speed more?
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Mechbay Questions For A Newbie.
Started by Combusty, Nov 16 2012 08:17 AM
9 replies to this topic
#2
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- Elite Founder
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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:50 PM
Trial 'Mech hell? lol The grind isn't even that long, especially now with the matchmaking limitations on premade groups.
All 'Mechs come fully equipped at maximum tonnage. Lighter 'Mechs will have lots of slots available, while heavier 'Mechs have less.
No such thing as "floating slots" unless they are referring to the movable slots that Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor take up.
Heat sinks work on overall heat. Where the heat sinks are in the 'Mech doesn't matter.
You have to unlock the skills with GXP first, then purchase the modules themselves with C-Bills.
Double heat sinks are supposed to be double. The devs somehow believe that full-strength doubles are OP. I don't know what fail builds they were using to come up with that idea, but they are wrong. In any case, "double" heat sinks outside the engine or in the engine slots are only working as 1.4s right now. The double heat sinks built into the engine are actually working as full doubles.
Going lighter than maximum tonnage doesn't increase speed. Only increasing the engine rating makes you faster. And there probably is chart for you somewhere -- check the General Guides section. In the Jenner's case, going from 280 to 300 only gives about 10 kph so the difference isn't all that great.
All 'Mechs come fully equipped at maximum tonnage. Lighter 'Mechs will have lots of slots available, while heavier 'Mechs have less.
No such thing as "floating slots" unless they are referring to the movable slots that Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor take up.
Heat sinks work on overall heat. Where the heat sinks are in the 'Mech doesn't matter.
You have to unlock the skills with GXP first, then purchase the modules themselves with C-Bills.
Double heat sinks are supposed to be double. The devs somehow believe that full-strength doubles are OP. I don't know what fail builds they were using to come up with that idea, but they are wrong. In any case, "double" heat sinks outside the engine or in the engine slots are only working as 1.4s right now. The double heat sinks built into the engine are actually working as full doubles.
Going lighter than maximum tonnage doesn't increase speed. Only increasing the engine rating makes you faster. And there probably is chart for you somewhere -- check the General Guides section. In the Jenner's case, going from 280 to 300 only gives about 10 kph so the difference isn't all that great.
#3
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- Little Helper
- 6 posts
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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:52 PM
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Of course the first thing I noticed is that my mech's tonnage is maxed, but there are many free slots. So do most mechs that you buy start similarly as mine? Does this mean that endosteel is basically the first thing I should buy, since it sacrifices slots to give you extra tonnage?
Depending on your build, double heat sinks may be a better first purchase. In general, though, your first visit to free up armour should be removing weapons you don't want. (Many stock mechs have weapon loadouts that don't work well together - differing ranges, different projectile speeds, different aiming reticles, etc.) You can also free up some space by downgrading your engine or moving to an XL engine, but this is very expensive and will either cost you speed or make you more vulnerable. (You'll be destroyed if you lose a side torso with an XL engine.)
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Second: I read that 'critical slots' means that the equipment fills up your 'floating slots', which are apparently slots that aren't tied to a specific part of your mech? If so, where do I see how many floating slots I have available?
Floating slots are critical slots which have to be open, but can be anywhere on your mech. A laser, for instance, takes up a critical slot on the body part it's installed on. Endo Steel, by contrast, takes up floating slots that can be anywhere on your mech - you just have to have enough slots free somewhere to buy the upgrade.
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Third: my hunchie likes to overheat, so I want to add more heatsinks. Do heatsinks only work on the body part on which they are installed? So if I added heat sinks to the spare slots in my right arm, would they only cool the medium laser that is installed there?
The only considerations for heat sinks is being able to fit them on the body part (regualr heat sinks take up 1 slot, doubles take 3), vulnerability, and I believe that heat sinks immersed in water are more effective, so heat sinks on the legs can be a good idea if you're the sort who likes dumping heat in the sea. Heat is mech-wide, and not tied to a specific location.
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Fourth: what is the deal with modules? I only ask because they made sense, until I saw that you could unlock them with GXP, as well as buy them. Is this just a case of two different ways to unlock the same thing? Or do I have to get enough GXP to unlock the skill, then spend cash to unlock the module?
Can't help you there, I'm afraid. They appear to be an endgame money-sink. Don't seem worth it to me if you have anything else to buy.
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Last: what is the deal with double heatsinks? So they take up 3x the space, but give 40% more cooling. So if I have space for 6 heatsinks in an arm, but I chose to use double heatsinks, I could only fit two, right? Those two would give the effective dissipation of 2.8 normal heatsinks. Six slots for 600% dissipation, or six slots for 280% dissipation. What am I missing here?
For lighter mechs, the limiting factor for being able to mount things on your mech is tonnage, not critical slots. Double heat sinks are 1.4x as effective, but are the same weight despite taking up 3x the space. They're really good for anyone but the largest mechs, in general. I've found that aside from fixing weapon loadouts, double heat sinks are one of the most cost-effective upgrades you can buy in terms of increasing your damage output.
Combusty, on 16 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:
Double-last: is there a chart somewhere showing engine size vs tonnage vs speed? Like, if I can free up 1 ton of space, is it worth jamming in a one size up engine? Or does that spare tonnage increase my speed more?
Engines are HUGELY expensive. It'll cost you several million C-bills for a new engine. Not worth it for small changes (like a 1-ton larger engine.) XL engines can be an effective upgrade if you both want to go faster and save on weight at the same time, but are willing to live with the fragility. (They're almost always worth it on a light mech, or on the faster mediums that rely on speed for defense over armour.)
Here are the charts:
http://mwomercs.com/...-mech-tonnages/
#4
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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:13 PM
the trial mech grind is still painful. start a second free account, and see what it's like without a founders mech to give an injection of capital between equiment you can sell off and whatnot, without premium bonus or founders bonus. i sympathize with people who suicide grind
so congrats on your shiny new hunchy OP. the H isn't my favorite hunchy, but it's a respectable build
to answer your questions, first, no. most mechs you don't need to fill all the slots for, and especially when you're poor, those upgrades eat your cash fast. i'd say first get all your weapons; a solid H build without the luxuries of DHS/ES is a gauss with medium lasers in the energy hardpoints, balanced against heat efficiency. next i'd go for the engine. don't touch an XL engine in a 4H, you'll get side torso'd every time. but depending on what you like it may help to have a bigger standard engine as you can fit. next i'd get the double heat sink upgrade. it's expensive, but even once they get the engine heatsinks fixed, it still gives a better tonnage-for-crit tradeoff than endo-steel, and will let you run much more weapons and still have manageable heat. finally i'd get endosteel, if your build still has room for it. don't touch ferro-fibrous
second, there's no place that lists a total number of free slots. you just have to check each component and count how many say "empty". once you do get endosteel though, endosteel requires 14 slots, and the mechlab will automatically pick 14 to use for it. as you shift things around in your mech, mechlab will automatically shift around which 14 slots get used for endosteel. as you add more things to your mech though, and start to run out of room, mechlab can no longer shift around as many slots. anyways, don't worry about it til you get endosteel. alternatively, there are online and excel mechlabs that let you design a mech without having to actually spend cbills to make the changes
third, no. heatsinks work everywhere. however, heatsinks in your legs cool you off a bit more if you're standing in water. also, heatsinks in a certain body part are lost if that body part is destroyed.
fourth, modules must first be unlocked in the pilot tree tab, and can only be unlocked with GXP (as you gain mech-specific XP from combat, you also get GXP at 5% of what mech XP you get). GXP can be used on any mech as well, but it's generally wiser to save it for modules that can only be unlocked with GXP. after you unlock the module, you have to go into mechlab and purchase and equip the module for it to function
last, you're forgetting that those 2 doubleheatsinks in the arm weigh 1 ton each, 2 tons total. the 6 single heatsinks you can fit weigh 6 tons total. lets compound that, 10 double heatsinks. yes 10 DHS only equate to 14 single heatsinks for dissipation purposes, but they also only weigh 10 tons instead of 14. sure with those 30 crits you can also cram 30 single heatsinks, but that also weighs a lot more. basically it's a tradeoff if you have free slots but not enough tonnage. all the upgrades basically do that tradeoff, with different crit usage and tonnage savings
double-last, see teiwaz's post, or personally i like
http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/
so congrats on your shiny new hunchy OP. the H isn't my favorite hunchy, but it's a respectable build
to answer your questions, first, no. most mechs you don't need to fill all the slots for, and especially when you're poor, those upgrades eat your cash fast. i'd say first get all your weapons; a solid H build without the luxuries of DHS/ES is a gauss with medium lasers in the energy hardpoints, balanced against heat efficiency. next i'd go for the engine. don't touch an XL engine in a 4H, you'll get side torso'd every time. but depending on what you like it may help to have a bigger standard engine as you can fit. next i'd get the double heat sink upgrade. it's expensive, but even once they get the engine heatsinks fixed, it still gives a better tonnage-for-crit tradeoff than endo-steel, and will let you run much more weapons and still have manageable heat. finally i'd get endosteel, if your build still has room for it. don't touch ferro-fibrous
second, there's no place that lists a total number of free slots. you just have to check each component and count how many say "empty". once you do get endosteel though, endosteel requires 14 slots, and the mechlab will automatically pick 14 to use for it. as you shift things around in your mech, mechlab will automatically shift around which 14 slots get used for endosteel. as you add more things to your mech though, and start to run out of room, mechlab can no longer shift around as many slots. anyways, don't worry about it til you get endosteel. alternatively, there are online and excel mechlabs that let you design a mech without having to actually spend cbills to make the changes
third, no. heatsinks work everywhere. however, heatsinks in your legs cool you off a bit more if you're standing in water. also, heatsinks in a certain body part are lost if that body part is destroyed.
fourth, modules must first be unlocked in the pilot tree tab, and can only be unlocked with GXP (as you gain mech-specific XP from combat, you also get GXP at 5% of what mech XP you get). GXP can be used on any mech as well, but it's generally wiser to save it for modules that can only be unlocked with GXP. after you unlock the module, you have to go into mechlab and purchase and equip the module for it to function
last, you're forgetting that those 2 doubleheatsinks in the arm weigh 1 ton each, 2 tons total. the 6 single heatsinks you can fit weigh 6 tons total. lets compound that, 10 double heatsinks. yes 10 DHS only equate to 14 single heatsinks for dissipation purposes, but they also only weigh 10 tons instead of 14. sure with those 30 crits you can also cram 30 single heatsinks, but that also weighs a lot more. basically it's a tradeoff if you have free slots but not enough tonnage. all the upgrades basically do that tradeoff, with different crit usage and tonnage savings
double-last, see teiwaz's post, or personally i like
http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/
#5
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- Little Helper
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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:44 PM
p00k, on 16 November 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:
don't touch an XL engine in a 4H, you'll get side torso'd every time.
I've never piloted a hunch, so I'm not speaking from experience, but is dying when you lose a side-torso all that bad for a hunchback? I mean, is it really worth living when you're down to a medium laser or two? As a Jenner pilot, when I see hunchies I just pop the hump and move on, because I know that hunchie is now 90% combat ineffective and will just get cleaned up later when the battle's a sure-thing. Wouldn't it be better to be faster and better armoured and running cooler so that maybe you don't get de-humped in the first place?
#6
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:18 AM
Teiwaz83, on 16 November 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:
I've never piloted a hunch, so I'm not speaking from experience, but is dying when you lose a side-torso all that bad for a hunchback? I mean, is it really worth living when you're down to a medium laser or two? As a Jenner pilot, when I see hunchies I just pop the hump and move on, because I know that hunchie is now 90% combat ineffective and will just get cleaned up later when the battle's a sure-thing. Wouldn't it be better to be faster and better armoured and running cooler so that maybe you don't get de-humped in the first place?
living is better than dying
it's less about what you have left if it happens, and more about how likely it is to happen
even in an atlas or awesome, you can still torso twist to try to shield an injured side torso (and i'll run an XL in those at times)
with a hunch though, the hunch is just so easy to hit that you can't shield it. an enemy in front of you can shoot it obviously. an enemy to your right can, too, and you can't really shield it with your arm like you can with an atlas/awesome. they can even be slightly behind you to the right. and more crippling, an enemy to your left can hit it as long as they're at least forward of 9-o'clock.
#7
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- 8 posts
Rookie
Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:54 AM
Thanks for the tips guys. The double heatsinks started to make sense to me after I putzed around a bit more in the mechbay. I think they will be a nice upgrade for my mech, as it has quite a few open slots but is very tonnage-limited. I already bought an endosteel upgrade.
After quite a few games I've noticed that I just can't seem to do serious damage with lasers (I did read that nice laser guide in the other newbie section!). The only times that I've really felt like I was doing more than coughing on an enemy were when I was hitting them with a gauss or AC. So with that in mind, I stripped off the small laser, and two torso lasers, then fitted a couple extra heatsinks and an AC/20 to round out the deal. I've had much more success. I basically charge people, and lay into them with the AC/20 from ~200m, using the lasers as light harassment. I've actually had a few rounds where I've done 200-350 damage and gotten a couple kills. Feels nice. I was toying with the idea of going one size down on the engine, which frees up one ton and would let me fit two med pulses, which might fit that playstyle better than regulars. But that is a large (1.3mil!) money investment for not much of a difference. Heat so far has been a non-issue except in the craziest of melees with everything rapid firing for 30+ seconds... and by that time I'm generally more worried about running out of cannon ammo.
I'm eyeing a Dragon-1N as my next mech purchase... it seems to be built more specifically for the playstyle that I seem to enjoy. Hide behind something til the fight is well on, rush out of cover and brawl for a minute, the get the hell out of dodge. Rinse, repeat.
After quite a few games I've noticed that I just can't seem to do serious damage with lasers (I did read that nice laser guide in the other newbie section!). The only times that I've really felt like I was doing more than coughing on an enemy were when I was hitting them with a gauss or AC. So with that in mind, I stripped off the small laser, and two torso lasers, then fitted a couple extra heatsinks and an AC/20 to round out the deal. I've had much more success. I basically charge people, and lay into them with the AC/20 from ~200m, using the lasers as light harassment. I've actually had a few rounds where I've done 200-350 damage and gotten a couple kills. Feels nice. I was toying with the idea of going one size down on the engine, which frees up one ton and would let me fit two med pulses, which might fit that playstyle better than regulars. But that is a large (1.3mil!) money investment for not much of a difference. Heat so far has been a non-issue except in the craziest of melees with everything rapid firing for 30+ seconds... and by that time I'm generally more worried about running out of cannon ammo.
I'm eyeing a Dragon-1N as my next mech purchase... it seems to be built more specifically for the playstyle that I seem to enjoy. Hide behind something til the fight is well on, rush out of cover and brawl for a minute, the get the hell out of dodge. Rinse, repeat.
#8
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- 8 posts
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:58 AM
Oh, and regarding the trial grind: it was pretty unpleasant. What killed me was that I wasn't getting any XP (after seeing the not-insubstantial upgrades you can unlock with it), and that I couldn't adjust the mechs at all. They ALL felt like they were really poorly put together, with weapon loadouts that just weren't very effective. Not only that, but they had so many random weapons that as a new player I found myself overheating any time I got into a fight.
60k per game, to save up 3.5mil credits to buy my first mech felt like a really long time... 60ish games is difficult when you lose maybe 90% of them.
60k per game, to save up 3.5mil credits to buy my first mech felt like a really long time... 60ish games is difficult when you lose maybe 90% of them.
#9
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- Legendary Founder
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:13 AM
Combusty, on 17 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:
Oh, and regarding the trial grind: it was pretty unpleasant. What killed me was that I wasn't getting any XP (after seeing the not-insubstantial upgrades you can unlock with it), and that I couldn't adjust the mechs at all. They ALL felt like they were really poorly put together, with weapon loadouts that just weren't very effective. Not only that, but they had so many random weapons that as a new player I found myself overheating any time I got into a fight.
60k per game, to save up 3.5mil credits to buy my first mech felt like a really long time... 60ish games is difficult when you lose maybe 90% of them.
60k per game, to save up 3.5mil credits to buy my first mech felt like a really long time... 60ish games is difficult when you lose maybe 90% of them.
Everything I've heard from new players says the new player experience (i.e. Trial 'Mech grind) is hell. I think most of the Founders forget that Trial 'Mechs only earn 25% of the C-Bills from a match. I think that number might have been adjusted recently, but it's still a substantial reduction.
Also: congratulations on your first 'Mech purchase.
#10
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- CS 2021 Gold Champ
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:12 AM
The trials these past couple weeks are pretty harsh too.
The atlas with the wonky weapons that is hot as hell and an XL engine. The C1 cat which is pretty hot and has 12 shots of LRMs. Cicada with jamming UAC5. And a SLOW commando death trap.
The atlas with the wonky weapons that is hot as hell and an XL engine. The C1 cat which is pretty hot and has 12 shots of LRMs. Cicada with jamming UAC5. And a SLOW commando death trap.
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