157 replies to this topic

[Lonestar1771]

Yeah I can't wait until the Super Mechs come back down to earth. The whole knockdown removal was probably the biggest advantage given to them. I realize they will bring it back when they "fix" it, but God only knows when that is. PGI please stop favoring the light mechs and get your **** together and fix the glaring issues that obviously swing the balance in favor of the smaller mechs.

[Main Man]

LBX, Streaks, and pulse lasers seem to be the best way to deal with Jenners. And finding a wall and put your back to it so they have to stay in your firing arc.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 November 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Circle strafe works. Jenners are not the problem, I killed two at range with missiles from my Atlas yesterday. You have issues like Lag shield, The Mech isn't the problem. Fix the FpS, fix ping rate, leave the Jenner alone. Once the hardware is fixed IF Jenners are still a problem, look at fixing it.

I don't have much trouble with them either, not since they rolled back the hit detection in the last patch. Circle strafing works for now, but it won't when collisions are back, and I think that will improve the tactical depth of the game when you have to maneuver more than just holding A or D most of the time.

[Jooky SeaCpt]

Krivvan, on 16 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

The best way to duel another Jenner is to not get into a circle strafe with it.

A general tip for any Jenner pilot who actually wants to get better and not just rely on a lagshield is to never get into a circle strafe.

Use your jump jets to force the enemy Jenner to either stop to turn or face you in an angle where you can hit it. Save your shots if it is moving perpendicular to you. One of the best times to hit an enemy Jenner is when it's right under you after you jump over it.

Krivvan has an excellent point. Many pilots do not know how to use jump jets properly in combat. All mechs with jets, even Catapults, should use their jump jets to pirouette(Spin in place) rather than do a long slow turn. Not only is such a maneuver much faster than turning with your feet, but it often takes your opponent completely by surprise.

[Lonestar1771]

Main Man, on 16 November 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

LBX, Streaks, and pulse lasers seem to be the best way to deal with Jenners. And finding a wall and put your back to it so they have to stay in your firing arc.

the problem with that is you are picking weapons to compensate for the lagshield which should not be the case. I can hit jenners with the AC20 for no damage since 1. the AC20 still travels through mechs and 2. the lagshield. All weapons should be viable for killing any kind of mech, some should just be better in different situations.

[Krivvan]

Jooky SeaCpt, on 16 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Krivvan has an excellent point. Many pilots do not know how to use jump jets properly in combat. All mechs with jets, even Catapults, should use their jump jets to pirouette(Spin in place) rather than do a long slow turn. Not only is such a maneuver much faster than turning with your feet, but it often takes your opponent completely by surprise.

I think of light mech dueling as if it were air combat. The goal is to always get yourself behind your opponent. As long as you are in that position you do not need to do anything else but chase it. If you are being chased you need to do things in order to get them off your tail and land hits.

One easy technique to do if an enemy Jenner is chasing you is to turn a corner then do a quick pirouette, speed up and jump again. The enemy Jenner should be turning the corner at this point which lets you have a good shot at it from above while it can't fire back at you. You should then land behind some kind of cover so it can't retaliate and you can rinse and repeat.

One huge advantage to doing that is that you are hitting the enemy Jenner at a point where it isn't moving relative to where you are firing. This means that its lagshield does not help it at all.


The one big mistake many make when using jump jets is that they are jumping in place. Unless you have a very good reason to do otherwise (such as a pirouette), whenever you jump jet you should be doing so with a lot of momentum so that you are still traveling somewhere.


Another thing that people may not realize is that you can turn your legs while in midair only when you still have jump jet fuel left. If you expend it all in midair then you will not be able to turn your legs until you land.

Edited by Krivvan, 16 November 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[bizzQc]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 November 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Circle strafe works. Jenners are not the problem, I killed two at range with missiles from my Atlas yesterday. You have issues like Lag shield, The Mech isn't the problem. Fix the FpS, fix ping rate, leave the Jenner alone. Once the hardware is fixed IF Jenners are still a problem, look at fixing it.

from a atlas .

but the true conter of a light mec is a medium.

and no way another light or a medium will have the firepower if the mec is balanced to Kill jenners that quick

[LethalMezzle]

I wouldn't worry about Jenners at the moment. Wonky netcode, high lag for lots of players because of NA-only servers and the lack of collisions makes them difficult to hit, but it's not a case of the Jenner being inherently overpowered.

I'd worry if you pilot a Jenner really, because you're in danger of getting comfy under the current circumstances. I've noticed that when I pilot a Jenner I've stopped trying to avoid bumping into people, which is going to kick me in the arse sooner or later.

EDIT: Replaced 'bite' with 'kick' because apparently that's worthy of a swear filter.

Edited by LethalMezzle, 16 November 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[xRaeder]

You know. As an off and on Jenner pilot I see none of what you guys are talking about.

Oftentimes I go after other light Mechs or the Cicada and am able to blow their legs off within 30 seconds.

So I really don't see a netcode issue UNLESS it is long range fire. At close range I always get hit if the enemy's aim is true (which a lot of the time it isn't), but I do notice some issues when someone has pegged me with a Gauss rifle round from long range (say 600m or more) and the damage doesn't register on my Jenner.

But I have never noticed any issue when I am close to another Jenner going full tilt.

I also notice that a lot of players just can't handle me in my Jenner. I hate to say it, but a good Jenner pilot will decimate an Atlas. It may take awhile... but... eventually most Atlas pilots fall to me.

I often win 2v1s because I am able to fake out the enemy... I can for example position myself between one enemy and another so that the other guy can't fire else he will hit his team mate... use jump jets to turn quicker than the enemy... use cover... etc. I love going up against people with long recharge weapons. Oftentimes I FEEL it when the enemy is about to fire his Gauss or AC/20 and I just tap on my jumpjets or jink a little and he misses. This isn't so much a back end limitation caused by packet loss or netcode issues. In fact I average 25-30ms with the server. A lot of it is player skill... and tbh a lot of people don't have it yet.

When I was still piloting my Atlas I was consistently able to own Jenners and hit them with Gauss and AC/20s. This was in CB (and even now in OB) when the "netcode issue" was supposedly far worse than it is now. Even now when I occasionally pilot my Atlas I will hit a Jenner most of the time with my heavy weapons and kill him.

So, not to be shooting myself in the foot here... as I am a Jenner pilot.. but... here are some tips.

1. Don't engage Jenners out in the open. We love it when you do this as it allows us room to maneuver around you and stay at your back.
2. Don't let a Jenner stay on your butt. I can't count how many times I have cored Atlases and Awesomes because they ignored 1LL and 3MLs shooting them in the back.
3. Always aim for the legs of a Jenner. Your laser weapons are especially useful for this. If we lose a leg we are done. The first thing I shoot on an enemy Jenner regardless of what I am in is his legs.
4. If you are in a light mech DO not focus on heavies... take pot shot targets of opportunity sure... but focus on the enemy lights when in a brawl.
5. Use the environment. Back yourself up against a building or a piece of terrain and we will often leave and go after more vulnerable targets.
6. Don't just run full tilt. We love when you do this because you can't turn as fast. Always lower your speed when turning. I can stay behind even a Dragon if hes going full tilt by varying my speed.

Your mileage may vary ... but these are some general Anti-Jenner (or fast Mech) rules.

Edited by xRaeder, 16 November 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[Krivvan]

LethalMezzle, on 16 November 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'd worry if you pilot a Jenner really, because you're in danger of getting comfy under the current circumstances. I've noticed that when I pilot a Jenner I've stopped trying to avoid bumping into people, which is going to kick me in the arse sooner or later.

It's true. I still make my best effort to avoid bumping into other mechs, but I've noticed that I do it a bit more often now if only because I don't get the negative reinforcement of a knockdown. Either that or other light mechs are far more willing to just run into me unlike before.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

Light pilots that Circle their target does so for one of these 3 reasons:


They are "Regular" pilots, who dont realize that circling is an inferior combat tactic.
They are "Veteran" pilots that know their target is unskilled, or without proper back-up.
They are farming and not paying attention while playng ( maybe they are watching Melrose place..? ).

In the ideal situation that "Veteran" and "Elite/Ace" pilots meet in a match, noone in their right mind would circle fight, unless the target is slow/lagged/unsupported, it is an inferior tactic, but for people with "Regular" skill-level its a viable option, since most pilots are "recruit" level.

Now stop all of this whining and learn to pilot a medium, like a real man does xP

Addendum: And NO I dont care to elaborate on my opinions, neither will i read any replies to this post, if you really want to know more, ask "xRaeder" that posted two posts above me, he seems to be a quality pilot, and an active poster.

Edited by H8Bitter, 16 November 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Kinjry]

Jenners ruin less than gauss rifles do. Stop whining and learn to lead shot until the netcode is fixed.

[Kdogg788]

1LL and 3MLs? Does that even fit on a Jenner?

I've had some funky things happen with other lights including a Commando at close range last night where I put enough fire into him at close range to take down 2 Catapults and it barely registered. I absolutely can't wait for the netcode and hit detection as well as collisions to be taken care of.

-k

Kinjry, on 16 November 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Jenners ruin less than gauss rifles do. Stop whining and learn to lead shot until the netcode is fixed.

Not to go off topic here, but gauss rifles can be countered. They also have a long recharge rate that you can use to get in cover.

-k

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Yes jenners can be annoying, so can streak cats, Gauss cats and whole host of other builds. Good pilots are annoying, bad team mates are annoying, the entire cap mechanic is annoying. Any one or all of these things can ruin my match, but none of them are impossible to deal with.

BE A TEAM! Unless you are ramboing alone on your own, you should not be able to be circle strafed to death. Have your team help, focus fire. Jenners go down quick enough if you dont try to beat them at their own game. Better hit detection will help, so will (hopefully) an improved collision mechanic.

[Ngamok]

Like others said, when collision comes back, they'll just keep dropping because if they do tight circle strafes, they'll eventually bump into you but wider circle strafes is easier to get a bead on them to hit them. Also, this is why I prefer the Catapult C1 over the A1 because of the 4 medium lasers to help with the faster mechs.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Kdogg788, on 16 November 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

1LL and 3MLs? Does that even fit on a Jenner?

Easily. contrary to popular belief not every Jenner has a 300xl engine in it. The build I'm contemplating mounts either a LPL or PPC plus 3 ML and 2SL. It only goes 120kph or so without speed tweak so I'm sure I wont get this 'lag sheild', but my current jenners all have stock engine anyway.

[Kdogg788]

I have speed tweak plus a couple smaller XLs, so perhaps I will do some tinkering in the lab tonight! The large laser is my weapon of choice. If you're doing it in mech bay, there is an outside chance it may not work, since the lab isn't 100% right, but I will experiment and try to get those weapons on there. I have to Elite the Jenner K, so maybe I will start there (though without the tweak I have on the D).

-k

Edited by Kdogg788, 16 November 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[Kill Dozer]

paladin yst, on 16 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

The lagshield is the single most biggest annoying thing ever, seriously.

I caught myself lag shooting at scouts last night, nice throwback to the 56k days.

[Krivvan]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 16 November 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Easily. contrary to popular belief not every Jenner has a 300xl engine in it. The build I'm contemplating mounts either a LPL or PPC plus 3 ML and 2SL. It only goes 120kph or so without speed tweak so I'm sure I wont get this 'lag sheild', but my current jenners all have stock engine anyway.

The 'lag shield' happens even at 100 kph. It only gets worse and worse for some the faster you get.

[bizzQc]

the thread is success full.

all pilot agree jenner is broken.

and they cold annoying a group of mec for so many time and Crit Medium and light so easy.
they win game by him self.

It is not the jenner pilot fault
it is the game fault.