44 replies to this topic

[Red Klown X]

So that s how people explain their bad aim , not their fault but because of lag...nice to read this .

I meet one of them , he wasnt able to hit me with his mech , maybe because i wasnt waiting for his shoot ?
he start to argue ingame that i was using netcode lag and blabla .

Told him to shut up and learn aim , i think it will be more efficient than keeping think , that he s the king and everything what he shoot must be automatically destroy .

Edited by klownnection, 17 November 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[Red Klown X]

so most of the game are draw and finish by time , seems lot of noobs find a way to get a clean shoot , i m happy to be part of them , thx for calling me noob , i let you at your elite way .

Hope one day you will learn and stop missing your target .

Edited by klownnection, 17 November 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Jessex]

You do realize that the devs have admitted there is a problem? Have you never played a multiplayer FPS before? This is a problem in all of them.

[Red Klown X]

Devs can admit whatever they want , and in all game , a good player adapt and get the head shoot and their kill . A whinner will complaing he dont hit because of the lag , of his mouse or whatever , that s all the difference , that why people make more kill than other , they practice ; ADAPT , try and dont forumise their deception , crying it s because of the netcode .
I already killed people 2-3 secondes after i shoot them , it s funny .


Mouhaha , haha hihi hoho .

o/ , hail from doom to quake .

Edited by klownnection, 17 November 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[xenoglyph]

what is this i don't even

[SJMechgod27]

xenoglyph, on 17 November 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

I had an idea for a system to reduce lag, not sure if anyone's ever tried it before.

Basically, game server caches game state for 250ms or so. Game client, when sending weapon fire requests, sticks a timestamp accurate to the millisecond on that datagram/packet. When game server receives request it goes back in time to the specified timestamp to calculate hits. Wouldn't eliminate lag, but would help quite a bit I think.

Will not work , there are many more variables that happen in that same time frame that will throw latency around , mechs speeding up / slowing down etc . Net code is just a lot more complicated to get some sort of equation to work very accurately with it. The issue Mechwarrior 3 had was that the host was always someone different , therefor , the latency would always be different depending on who the host was. It was a horrible experience for most people but those that knew how to read it in a split second and fire into empty space , got good at it and was able to consistantly score hits , like me. However , in todays world of FPS and FPS like simulation games , that sort of critical information is almost impossible to get very accurate with on standard connections , if it was a game where you could play across a LAN , none of that would exist much at all. However its not , so thats what we have. I think it works fine but then again , I'm from Mechwarrior 3 , so eh , use to it from that.

Edited by SJMechgod27, 17 November 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[xenoglyph]

Besides the possibly huge logistics of redesigning the game server code, why wouldn't it work in theory? I'm not talking about using algorithms to guess locations at various points in time. I'm talking about the game server keeping a cache of actual game state, at millisecond resolution, for 250ms or so. For the sole purpose of weapon firing and hit detection, nothing else.

At perfect efficiency it should cut perceived latency by 50% for weapon usage.

Designing such a cache is a pretty difficult problem, but it would be interesting to try.

Edited by xenoglyph, 17 November 2012 - 03:10 AM.

[Gabrielpendragon]

The issue is from adding security in server side they lose the confirmation of client side hits.

The flip side is people cheating by changing the client side data.

The best thing to do is to mitigate your own lag. Pick your shots better, shoot at times when they are not moving at an angel to you but right to you. even bag lag won't protect them from those shots.

Its mostly an issue of more hardware power and more efficient programs along with algorithms to better predict the discrepancies.

[Avin]

Your dead right Xeno. Keeping a cache or history of communications and having the server effectively back track in time to resolve the hit/miss of a shot is one way of addressing the issue. The trade off is that you still need a small amount of fudge factor when you reconcile the shot with the lagging client. Server says "Yes, that was a hit. Lagging client, render that image!" and the client renders a PPC blast from where the attacker is now, to where the target is now. It will probably look a little wonky but is one of those ways to hide lag effects from the clients. I suspect thats what the dev team have been trying and why we get people reporting shots/missiles going through mountains and buildings. The server has all ready decided you've been hit and you're client is just trying to show that the best way it knows how.

I mentioned that not all methods/algorithms for handling lag would work in all situations. Now apply that "historical reconcilation" method to collisions. You need a way for an event to happen at the "same time" and in the same contiguous space in the game world. You don't get the luxury of wonky weapons fire rendering - *cue debate on rubber banding *.

Everything is related to everything else. Its all a trade off of one thing against another.

[Thermal]

...or the devs could put servers in different locations, and reduce the source of the problem, being each clients ping.

[Squarefox]

klownnection, on 17 November 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

So that s how people explain their bad aim , not their fault but because of lag...nice to read this .

I meet one of them , he wasnt able to hit me with his mech , maybe because i wasnt waiting for his shoot ?
he start to argue ingame that i was using netcode lag and blabla .

Told him to shut up and learn aim , i think it will be more efficient than keeping think , that he s the king and everything what he shoot must be automatically destroy .

Yes, you are a clown.

[Reoh]

No collision.

When mechs run into each other, without collision this causes problems for the server. It doesn't know where to put mechs and causes issues. This also happens with collision on certain parts of the map where mechs can become stuck for no apparent reason.

At the very least, every time mechs (and some terrain) collide it buggers up. Best I can come up with.

[Avin]

@Thermal: Yes, spreading the servers around geographically would help in reducing latency between clients and servers. This would help tackle some of the issue. Clients would get an authoritive "yes, you've hit!" much sooner than having to go all the way to the US servers.

But then you have to handle another problem. Two servers managing the same match tell each other conflicting info that they have both told their local clients an answer to already. Which server is "right" and then how do you reconcile that on the "losing" servers side (and clients)? I suspect solutions in this space could contribute to rubber banding.

Edited by Avin, 17 November 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Random Incarnate]

Avin, on 16 November 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

MWO is an extremely ambitious project. Think Eve Online ambitious. We got any Eve players with bad lag who can comment? I'm a fan of the Battletech lore, I actually quite like what they've done with the game so far and I'm very interested in how they address these issues.

They dealt with large amounts of players via time dilation, I believe that just slowed everything down so the server could deal with it, instead of 5 minute waves of action. Most of the bottlenecks are server-side.

But living in Aus, I had a ping anywhere from 250-400ms. The lag made interceptor piloting impossible, because of the delay between clicking on the screen and my trajectory changing. Otherwise, for combat, everything was maths and lock-ons, rather than any sort of aiming. It didn't matter if there was a 1s total difference, the shots hit.

[KKRonkka]

I haven't seen technical aspects told by developers regarding this problem, just that they have admitted it exists.

Ahaha, klownnection made a clown of himself, nice trolling! Netcode problem = excuses, learn to aim? Aiming doesn't really help in this when your view and server's view are something totally different. E.g. I see a clear miss, yet mech I aimed at explodes and I get a kill. I shoot at Jenner, see hits, yet it wont take damage. Hit & collision detection sucks badly in MWO thanks to netcode and lag (players have ping from 5 to 300ms in matches thanks to US-only server).

[Avin]

Random Incarnate, on 17 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

But living in Aus, I had a ping anywhere from 250-400ms. The lag made interceptor piloting impossible, because of the delay between clicking on the screen and my trajectory changing. Otherwise, for combat, everything was maths and lock-ons, rather than any sort of aiming. It didn't matter if there was a 1s total difference, the shots hit.

OK, that's interesting. So it sounds like the player base adapted to different roles and weapons based on the level of lag they experienced? I'm also going to assume their was enough content/interactivity in these different roles to make it an enjoyable gaming experience? E.g: it didn't matter to you that you couldn't be an effective interceptor pilot you just focused your time in other game roles.

[Trauglodyte]

The "netcode problem" also comes into play with yourself and terrain. For example, you'll be piloting and run into a building. You can't run over the building so you should be stopped. If the Mech that your piloting is going fast enough, you'll stop due to the terrain, get teleported beyond the terrain and then back again (possible a couple of times), and then the system will synch up and you'll be able to move out of the situation.

While you said no anecdotal evidence, this did happen to me last night while I was in my Cicada rocking it out at 135ish. I was in the god awful all snow map (GRRRRRR!!!!) and was circling to get around an Atlas only to run into one of the lower buildings. I was going full speed when I hit it but I should have stopped dead in my tracks. Instead, I warped forward and back a few times, roughly taking 3-4 seconds, for the servers to line up before I was able to actually navigate out of the area.

Sadly, the faster you move, the worse the problem gets. I'm not sure I've seen anyone complaining about Atlai or Awesomes that skip around or don't register damage taken.

[Krivvan]

Jessex, on 17 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

You must be a total noob to not know that in the situation under discussion it is simply impossible to know where to correctly aim. You cannot know the ping of your target and without that knowledge and knowledge of how the server handles the interaction between your ping and the targets you have absolutely no way of knowing how much to lead the target.

Well technically you actually can check a target's ping with the player list. If it's a target that I seem to have trouble hitting I will bring up the player list so that I can adjust my aim to his/her ping.

[Trauglodyte]

Hey Krivvan, just out of curiosity (and no, this isn't an attack of any type), are you a "legger"? I've been running into more and more Jenners in games and none of them bother targetting torsos. I just keep getting schwacked on my legs. Rather annoying and unsporting.

[Red Klown X]

POST deleted , some people have a real problem with the opinion of other . And even if someone make sandwich in a subway , why he cant play mechwarrior online ?

By the way you do wrong , by deleting the post of people like rythex because they show us how people can be .

Edited by klownnection, 18 November 2012 - 12:29 AM.