2926 replies to this topic

[grayson marik]

malibu43, on 19 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Well, they made that promise early in closed beta, and now that the game is open to more casual players in closed beta, they are getting new feedback from potential customers about a way to improve their game-play experience. I doubt anyone here has access to their market research (the forums are not necessarily representative of their true market), so we have no way of knowing how many players have asked for or would benefit from making a change to camera view options. If they've received significant feedback on the issue, it would be downright stupid of PGI not to consider it (and that's all they're doing at this point, CONSIDERING it). They need to attract lots of players to this game. The hardcore forum members are not nearly enough to support the game.



Dude. All that stuff is still coming. I doubt that everyone on the staff dropped everything they were doing to work on 3rd person camera.

first you might be right about their sources of information... but still, i'd expect at least SOME real demand for 3rd on the forums to be noted if the new users argument would be valid.

second:

malibu43, on 19 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Dude. All that stuff is still coming. I doubt that everyone on the staff dropped everything they were doing to work on 3rd person camera.

are you sure? managers and idiots ( some times this means the same), can be a true pain to a dedicated development team, trying to squeeze silly stuff into the next best patch....
that's why we have to continue throwing dirt until the matter has been loud enough complained about even into the managers offices to have them rethink their reasons as well as their priorities.

[malibu43]

grayson marik, on 19 November 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

... second: are you sure? managers and idiots ( some times this means the same), can be a true pain to a dedicated development team, trying to squeeze silly stuff into the next best patch.... that's why we have to continue throwing dirt until the matter has been loud enough complained about even into the managers offices to have them rethink their reasons as well as their priorities.

Well, they keep saying it's coming. And I don't even think they're really behind on delivering it, are they? So why are we assuming it's not coming now?

[von Pilsner]

Quote

Paul Inouye said:

No no no... no MW vs MA threads please. We've already stated that this will be a first-person perspective game. We've also addressed the gameplay speed and operations therein.

[grayson marik]

malibu43, on 19 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Well, they keep saying it's coming. And I don't even think they're really behind on delivering it, are they? So why are we assuming it's not coming now?

I never actually sayd it would not.
But they should rather investigate how to improve matchmaking or how to solve some bugs instead of investigating 3rd ^^

[malibu43]

grayson marik, on 19 November 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

I never actually sayd it would not. But they should rather investigate how to improve matchmaking or how to solve some bugs instead of investigating 3rd ^^

Again, that assumes that the resources working on implementing 3rd person view have a significant impact on matchmaking and bug fixing.

[HighGround]

I am against having a 3rd person view in the game. It gives you an unfair advantage, you can see around corners and such because you are looking over your shoulder instead of from within the cockpit.

I enjoy 1st person shooters, because they are more realistic. The people who want a 3rd person view are probably all console gamers.

It would be nice to be able to look at my mech from a 3rd person perspective so I can check out all the different camo paint jobs and such, but having a 3rd person perspective in a match is unfair to those who play in 1st person.

Leave it the way it is please.

[malibu43]

HighGround, on 19 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I am against having a 3rd person view in the game. It gives you an unfair advantage, you can see around corners and such because you are looking over your shoulder instead of from within the cockpit. I enjoy 1st person shooters, because they are more realistic. The people who want a 3rd person view are probably all console gamers. It would be nice to be able to look at my mech from a 3rd person perspective so I can check out all the different camo paint jobs and such, but having a 3rd person perspective in a match is unfair to those who play in 1st person. Leave it the way it is please.

True if assuming the devs don't do what they say they're going to do...

edit - And on that note, I'm done posting in this thread. Too much is based on assumptions at this point to have any sort of meaningful, logical discussion about it. I personally don't want a 3rd person view, but I see no reason to freak out if it's there for other to use, based on what I've been told about how it will be implemented (if it's even implemented).

Edited by malibu43, 19 November 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[HighGround]

OneManWar, on 19 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

I really dont care if people agree with me at this point, I'm so damn sick of all the threats on here. Every change they make or thing they tweak results in a bunch of people coming on here calling the development team morons and threatening for a refund. It's gotten out of hand, WAY out of hand. Nothing I say will change this, so as much as they vent about these changes I felt the need to vent against one of these people. As a programmer and general IT guy with VG design experience (as well as a big Battletech fan) it is DEPRESSING and EMBARASSING to even come here. You know what one of the main things that probably chases new players away? Any one of them that comes on the forums and sees the CONSTANT negativity from all the people here.

This is the entitlement society we live in at it's best. "Give me what I want you moron or I'll sue, I'll trash your company, I'll threaten your family, I'll vandalize your building. I am your customer and am entitled to having your product MY way."

In reality, the customer is entitled to absolutely nothing more than what they paid for. If you don't like what the company is selling, take your money somewhere else, but don't throw a childish entitlement tantrum if they don't change their product to make you happy. Companies should learn by now that they can't make 100% of all consumers happy with their product.

[grayson marik]

malibu43, on 19 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Again, that assumes that the resources working on implementing 3rd person view have a significant impact on matchmaking and bug fixing.

resources on software development are always rare.. so I stick with that assumption since I never experienced something like a spare programmer or designer in my own software developer years yet.

[Krellek]

I think a lot of people are bypassing the critical notions of the possible problems that a 3rd person view utilized in combat will add.

Yes, it would be nice to make it easier to stay off walls, but in reality you probably shouldn't be running that fast to begin with. Learn to feather your speed around turns. You wouldn't take your vehicle around a turn in a tight alley at full speed, so why would you take a mech around the corner in the same fashion?

While I think sniping in 1st person and 3rd person won't ever look like it did in MW4, it would still give an advantage to the 3rd person pilot. By allowing someone to use 3rd person while sniping, they wouldn't have to pay attention to their mini map in order to see if someone is coming up on a flank.

In most game examples of a 3rd person view, the pilot / player can always see around terrain. There is no way to justify allowing someone to peer around a corner or over a hill in order to see enemy movement. It simply isn't right.

Saying "everyone get's the option for it so it's fair", isn't a good enough reason.

The fact remains that even though the Dev's insinuated there would be little, if any work on a 3rd person view, they have the right to do whatever they want.

Those same Dev's though need to understand the backlash that will run through the pilot ranks. I personally waited a decade for a good mech sim to come out. As I see it right now, we have it. Any 3rd person view implemented that would allow for any of the above mentioned advantages would surely turn me from a HC and competitive player to a casual pilot passing on any league play.

That isn't a threat meant to make Dev's and other players assume my piloting skills would render the game that much less elite if I didn't play. It is simply meant to say my peace on the subject.

Put simply, think really hard on exactly what a 3rd person view would be in game. Understand that a lot of the community is playing based on the notion that 1st person was mentioned as the main focus

Shoot straight,

-Krellek.

[HighGround]

grayson marik, on 19 November 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Ok, i think we can lay one point aside:
There will be no advance of 3rd playing people over 1st playing ones, since they stated that you would never play 1st against a pilot using 3rd in the same drop.

oh...wait...

At least, that's how they would implement it!

Point is: if 3rd is in, one will find a way to activate it even in 1st person view drops to cheat.

So after all:
It is still not needed for the new pilots nor wanted by the players for the following reasons:

-Not needed because 3rd is simply not helpful for new players struggling with torso vs leg movement - it just does not help them, simple as that! Which, by the way, annihilates the argument PGI brought.

- Not wanted because once it is implemented it opens the road to (more) cheating and also splits the community in one more way than the usual match settings like premade vs premade, pug vs pug and game mode.

Not even to mention the loss of immersion and to not open a new construction site while the basics are not working properly and so on and so forth.

I strongly suggest PGI should take the comments from us to heart and then should come up with a final statement what will be or not be and for which reasons!
And they better be honest this time explaining their decision!

And one last edit to forestall wrong views:

I still believe this game is awesome and has a LOT of potential to run successful for years to come!
I also believe PGi has some very competent developers working on this project.

The only thing I am thinking is:

The money counters and nitpickers are building up pressure on the team before the project even reached a stage, where it can show even 10 % of its addictive potential due to lack of features that are yet to come.

So please all you brokers, managers and what the f.u.c.k other kind of paper workers, give the team time to build the game that was promised and planned. Dont force them to implement c.rap just for the short term money!
It will pay out for you!

Quoted For Truth

The last thing we need is another feature that can be hacked which allows cheaters to cheat. Let's keep this game as cheat free as possible. Matter of fact, a 3rd person view is a cheat in itself because it lets you see from outside of the cockpit.

[HighGround]

Krellek, on 19 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

In most game examples of a 3rd person view, the pilot / player can always see around terrain. There is no way to justify allowing someone to peer around a corner or over a hill in order to see enemy movement. It simply isn't right.

Very good point. Scouts will be hiding behind hills and using 3rd person to scout enemy movement without ever being seen by the enemy.

PGI, take it from a gamer who's been gaming for over 20 years, 3rd person kills a 1st person shooter. Just say NO to 3rd person.

[Ransack]

Too much to read at the moment. Bottom line is I don't think that the majority of your player base even wants you to spend the time even considering it. 86 the idea entirely, and work on the things that matter.

Things that I would prefer that you spend time and thought on:

adding new game types
Adding new mechs,
fixing the low fps crash to desktop.
Make the UI less clunky
Add new maps
Fix PPC's
Fix colisions
fix the netcode

There are plenty of things that you guys should be putting your efforts into. Leave the unpopular ideas in the trash pile please.

[Krellek]

HighGround, on 19 November 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Very good point. Scouts will be hiding behind hills and using 3rd person to scout enemy movement without ever being seen by the enemy.

PGI, take it from a gamer who's been gaming for over 20 years, 3rd person kills a 1st person shooter. Just say NO to 3rd person.

I'm not saying they shouldn't look into 3rd person view. But rather be careful with what you do with it.

Maybe they come up with a creative and unique format to apply it, maybe they don't. Point being don't rush it and certainly keep a lid on the subject until you're ready to patch something in for testing purposes.

In reality it's much better to go through these motions now instead of waiting until after the official release. The backlash following a release would almost certainly be severe.

Have faith in the Dev's. The product is good so far and the last thing they want to do is bring such a big project for them to it's knees.

[Direwolfe72X]

First, love LOVE! the game. But don't spend a minute on 3rd person when there are a laundry list of features announced that have not been implemented. Instead of announcing another feature (3rd person view), worry about finishing the features that have been announced. Secondly, I'd be concern over the increased situational awareness a person in 3rd person gets over a person in 1st person. I do not want to be forced into playing in 3rd person to maintain a competitive edge.

Bottomline: Get the rest of the game in order and announce a "RELEASE DATE" before devoting resources to 3rd person. Do that and you'll have my continued monetary contributions.

[Usagi]

Alright...it's time to take a stand. I havn't seen much of a voice for this, so i'll speak up. I want 2nd person view.

I want to only see this game through the eyes of my opponent, and control myself based on how they see me. I'd always be able to tell which way my legs were pointed...you know, as long as someone could see me doing it.And I'd always know how awesome i looked in someone elses eyes with my badass giant robot!

Okay...clearly that's not serious. But, all that's happening now is people hammering the same points over and over while we wait for a belated official response. Hopefully that response is forthcomming, as most reasonable excuses are exhausted. Theres no more people in mid flight...the weekend is over and everyone should be at work. And, reasonably, this SHOULD be a pretty high priority to respond to.

So, hopefully people can sit back and wait to see if their arguments have gained ground instead of beating people over the ehad with them who may already be on your side.

Other then that...if no 2nd person option goes live...I'm suin for my money back and I'm going to picket their corporate officies. Oh, I will, you jsut watch! O_O

[ComStar repairman]

I figured this would come up once the beta was opened up. Sigh...

[Kaijin]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this (he's currently at 40,000 feet, and not by Jump Jetting) with more details.

Sure he hasn't left orbit? It's been 3 days...

[Thalen Chase]

If they did it right, 3rd person view could be interesting...

A. make it look like a 3D tactical map... Basically, it would be your mech's computer creating a 3rd person simulation based on normal 1st person visual data that it gathers.

B. Create it so that enemy mechs don't appear on the tactical map unless you or a teammate can actually see the enemy in 1st person view. You may have a good idea of what the terrain around the corner is like "based on satellite data", but the enemy around the corner doesnt appear until he is visible from a 1st person perspective.

Basically, as long as they can do it in a way that doesn't offer an advantage to 3rd person viewers over 1st person players, I'd be ok with a 3rd person option.

[Grisman]

I'm a very new player with less than 5 matches under my belt , although i am getting thourouly thrashed every match I feel that 3rd person view would be the worst idea to implement, it would ruin the whole concept of the game. everyone was a noob at one time kinda unfair for players who have devoted hours to perfecting their moves to be gutted by Aunt Betty in a Jenner in her second match A much better idea would be a training ground for new pilots. Not having a training ground is turning a lot of potential new pilots away