2926 replies to this topic

[xxREVxx]

didn't read everything but....ok fine ya's got TPP coming. It had better be fixed, straight angle view not the kind of view like we had in mercs

[Kahrek]

I try to stay away from speaking out on forums but this issue is actually one that would greatly affect me as a player.

For the record, I am totally against 3rd person options in any competitive MWO play. I have tried to find reasons for this that would be justified in game and only come out with negatives. Segregating the player base is, unfortunately, not a solution that would be viable until online players population soars.

The tactical benefits to 3rd person have been discussed to death and in my opinion clearly established. The benefits to Machinima enthusiats are clear as are the benefits for replay value. I do not think that these benefits weigh in significantly on the scale and could be implemented seperately of in game 3rd person view.

Please P.G.I. i give you the benefit of the doubt (and so does my money) I hope you will give your playerbase the same credit in return in taking our opinions seriously.

Best regards,

Kahrek Laume.

[SuomiWarder]

"MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience"

I suggets that you do not understand the meaning of the word "sacrosanct".

[Vertrucio]

Ah, gamer rage.

There is no lack of communication from the devs, there is a lack of positive imagination and restraint from the MWO community.

Nothing is set in stone. I for one, despite being against 3rd person am willing to see how it is implemented first. But, just as much as I can imagine 3rd person views being detrimental to the game, I can imagine much more how it can be a positive effect.

And if it ends up not turning out well, then it's open beta, and a game that's always in development anyway. They can always change it back.

I do think a new set of HUD displays might work better than 3rd person view, but I've already suggested that.

[Krellek]

Vertrucio, on 19 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Ah, gamer rage.

There is no lack of communication from the devs, there is a lack of positive imagination and restraint from the MWO community.

Nothing is set in stone. I for one, despite being against 3rd person am willing to see how it is implemented first. But, just as much as I can imagine 3rd person views being detrimental to the game, I can imagine much more how it can be a positive effect.

And if it ends up not turning out well, then it's open beta, and a game that's always in development anyway. They can always change it back.

I do think a new set of HUD displays might work better than 3rd person view, but I've already suggested that.

I think this is where a lot of us stand. We know that the Dev's keep track of the community temperature at any given point.

It's our duty to get enough voices to speak up so that they know where we stand in general.

It seems most people have resigned themselves to go with the flow and wait it out (not much choice, but not the point). The Dev's know why we feel the way we do. It's up to them to interpret and test things out then give 'em to us to break and QQ as needed.

I have faith that the Dev team understands EXACTLY where we are coming from. The last thing they want to do is break this game.

[Naduk]

what if it was only triggered when your torso is twisted and your legs at stuck up against something
like a building or a cliff wall, it would have no aiming or targeting info or hud aspects (just like getting knocked down in the past)
then as soon as you have corrected the problem it goes back into normal camera
(correcting the problem could be, full engine stop {x}, center torso{c} or manual alignment of legs or torso)

this way pilots can have that oh im being a noob education with out the need for it to be anything else
it could be considered part of the beginners help and be turned off automatically after 100 matches or so
or be manually turned off/on in the menus for people that hate it or need it past their early games

[Trypsix]

Ok, I'm a newbie (aka Trypwyre), but I've dropped some cash on this game when I discovered it was a game of skill, not firepower per se. Logically , in first person you have to aim at or lead your target to score a hit. How will this work in a third-person perspective? Third-person targetting is notoriously point-and-click , with perhaps a probability role. Please , for God's sake don't turn this into D&D or BSGO (who incidently has been fighting to make the game into 1st person) , you already have so much more than that.

Secondly, and this has been asked earlier, how will the target/spotting work in 3rd-p? The radar we have is notoriously unreliable. If you're thinking line-of-sight algorithms as like MechCommander , please don't , as they will take the "hunt" out of the game.

Last , you have a beautiful game with so much potential and a loyal and (mostly) paying clients. We whinge about little things like LRM spams etc...but the game is loved. As was MW, MW2,MW2 Mercs, etc. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken, please. 1st person is the game...if you want something to fix , how about a server for Oceania, there are enough of us.(Yes I know we're in beta...it's still a good idea to have it in place and tested before it all goes live.)

Edited by Trypsix, 19 November 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Krellek]

Naduk, on 19 November 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

what if it was only triggered when your torso is twisted and your legs at stuck up against something
like a building or a cliff wall, it would have no aiming or targeting info or hud aspects (just like getting knocked down in the past)
then as soon as you have corrected the problem it goes back into normal camera
(correcting the problem could be, full engine stop {x}, center torso{c} or manual alignment of legs or torso)

this way pilots can have that oh im being a noob education with out the need for it to be anything else
it could be considered part of the beginners help and be turned off automatically after 100 matches or so
or be manually turned off/on in the menus for people that hate it or need it past their early games

Where as that is a well thought out idea, most people in favor of a 3rd person view are requesting it in order to use it for terrain advantages as well as being able to easily see people sneak up on them.

I like your idea and would like to see it tried.

[Zonewave]

WE CAN HAVE IT BOTH WAYS and not effect game play.

1. NEVER offer 3rd person during the battle. Before the battle.. in the mech shop 3rd person ONLY.

2. If you DIE... you CAN NOT VIEW the battle 3rd person. You can relay intelligence to the live mech via voice coms.


Most people want to see the beauty of their mechs, whether in the mech bays or before battle in formations.

[repete]

SuomiWarder, on 19 November 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

I suggets that you do not understand the meaning of the word "sacrosanct".

Or "always".

I guess the fudging could be in the interpretation of the world "focused". "It depends on what the meaning of the work 'is' is".

Edited by repete, 19 November 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Pyrrho]

Usagi, on 19 November 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Alright...it's time to take a stand. I havn't seen much of a voice for this, so i'll speak up. I want 2nd person view.

I want to only see this game through the eyes of my opponent, and control myself based on how they see me. I'd always be able to tell which way my legs were pointed...you know, as long as someone could see me doing it.And I'd always know how awesome i looked in someone elses eyes with my badass giant robot!

Okay...clearly that's not serious. But, all that's happening now is people hammering the same points over and over while we wait for a belated official response. Hopefully that response is forthcomming, as most reasonable excuses are exhausted. Theres no more people in mid flight...the weekend is over and everyone should be at work. And, reasonably, this SHOULD be a pretty high priority to respond to.

So, hopefully people can sit back and wait to see if their arguments have gained ground instead of beating people over the ehad with them who may already be on your side.

Other then that...if no 2nd person option goes live...I'm suin for my money back and I'm going to picket their corporate officies. Oh, I will, you jsut watch! O_O

I think I love you.

[Dock Steward]

Alois Hammer, on 19 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

So the real question becomes: "Since they can't figure out the two devilishly simple indicators we've got now, how many more should we add before giving in to the obvious reality that some people just need to move on to a game more suited to their skill sets?"

I'm sorry, nothing personal, but this is a terrible conclusion to come to. New players are having a difficult time learning to play the game..screw them, they should play something else?

It's a good thing the devs don't think like you.

Clearly the real issue is the lack of a solid New Player Orientation system. Sure there are tutorials but they don't seem to be doing their job if new players are still confused. IMO there needs to be an entire game mode devoted to training new players. Perhaps that's already in the works idk. Seems like making the completion of a Training Mode mandatory would be a lot less drastic than adding 3rd person view.

[Krellek]

Dock Steward, on 19 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I'm sorry, nothing personal, but this is a terrible conclusion to come to. New players are having a difficult time learning to play the game..screw them, they should play something else?

It's a good thing the devs don't think like you.

Clearly the real issue is the lack of a solid New Player Orientation system. Sure there are tutorials but they don't seem to be doing their job if new players are still confused. IMO there needs to be an entire game mode devoted to training new players. Perhaps that's already in the works idk. Seems like making the completion of a Training Mode mandatory would be a lot less drastic than adding 3rd person view.

Keep in mind that in beta's, one will very rarely see any type of tutorial. Historically, any beta only shows a small percent of the actual game itself. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

Tutorial vs third person mode isn't really the issue here.

A lot of MW3/MW4 vets were used to competing in a third person view. Yes, a lot of the newer players want anything to help them get a firm grasp of the controls. But just like with any game, skill comes over time, and even the sloppiest of noobs will learn to control their mechs in at least a basic fashion.

It's not a concern of whether or not a different view will help new people, but rather if that same view will tip the balance of the simulator style game play that the Dev team has set as its gold standard.

Simply put, if the '3rd person view' gives a distinct advantage in combat, the notion that MWO as a first person cockpit simulator is out the window.

Edited by Krellek, 19 November 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Xander Pappyson]

Kaijin, on 19 November 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Sure he hasn't left orbit? It's been 3 days...

LOL I love it. Seriously, where is the command chair post on this subject?

[tidurian]

3rd person will ruin gameplay, some of us will only play first person due to our love for battletech, this gives people a clear disadvantage, if it takes you 3 weeks to learn to pilot then good, you learn. I didnt get it qucikly, and took me a month to learn circle is my arms. Fact is I came out to be one of the best players in this, because I learned....

[DirePhoenix]

From the Ask the Devs 25 - Answers! thread:

Garth Erlam, on 19 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Q: Lately, we've been quite surprised by some decisions (DHS and 3rd Person to name just a few), so do you feel that communication is still good ? [Ezrekiel]
A: Apparently not, as we said we're looking at whether or not 3rd person would work, and people took that to mean not only had we already decided, but that we're actively adding it now. [Garth]

[Ozasuke]

Third-person is nice, but it doesn't suit this franchise. World of Tanks would be terrible as a first-person-only game, and EVE Online is a roleplaying game (so a comparison to that is ridiculous). MechWarrior has and should continue to be a first-person-only game.

With that, the only third-person view I want to see is when I'm using a Command Console and launched a probe from my head that I can control to get a tactical overview of the battlefield to scout and/or relay commands and orders to my lance:
http://www.youtube.c...Wr3ZUQJeo#t=24s

Oz

edit: added a link

Edited by Ozamis, 19 November 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[Volkite]

>"Huge number of requests."
>That totally explains the 91.5% saying no to the idea.
>Immediately, people start lining up to suck **** for the 3rd person.
>First page on this thread, not the last 2 95+ page threads, will be treated as the "fans' response".
>Prove me wrong.

Edited by Merovigian, 19 November 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Merovigian, on 19 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

>"Huge number of requests."
>That totally explains the 91.5% saying no to the idea.
>Immediately, people start lining up to suck **** for the 3rd person.
>First page on this thread, not the last 2 95+ page threads, will be treated as the "fans' response".
>Prove me wrong.

First the 91.5% you are getting from the opinion poll only represents 1% of the total playerbase (~4,000 inputs from a playerbase of ~400,000 registered users). So 91.5% of 1% of the playerbase has polled (this isn't a vote) with a negative opinion of third-person views in this game. 8.5% of 1% have voted otherwise, while 99% haven't voted at all. "Representative Samples" don't mean squat here. You can't even get anything close to a representative sample in a poll where people can elect to take part or not. Selective polls like the ones you see on these forums DO. NOT. represent anything other than the people that participate in them.

That being said, *I* do not want a third person combat view. However, I am not closed off to ideas on how to create solutions for the problems people seem to be having being stuck in a first-person in-cockpit view. I've already stated elsewhere a method to employ a non-combat, in-game third person optional view that would allow users to see their 'mech and get their bearings (as well as take awesome screenshots of themselves), that would not "break the game".

However, all of this is probably useless anyway, as Garth said several times already (and people keep ignoring):

Garth Erlam, on 19 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Q: Lately, we've been quite surprised by some decisions (DHS and 3rd Person to name just a few), so do you feel that communication is still good ? [Ezrekiel]
A: Apparently not, as we said we're looking at whether or not 3rd person would work, and people took that to mean not only had we already decided, but that we're actively adding it now. [Garth]

EDIT: As of this posting, 23% (157) of the 686 posts in this thread come from only 18 individuals. You may want to check where the posts are coming from in those other "huge" threads. Thread size and post counts do not necessarily correlate to "popular opinion", even among just the forum participants (which like I said earlier do not necessarily represent the actual community).

Edited by DirePhoenix, 19 November 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[JustPyro]

Although I have already voted, and voiced my opinion earlier, a member of my company expressed that if it could be useful to have 3rd person perspective limited to trial mechs. New users can then have a shallower learning curve, getting used to how the mech feels and reacts, from an easier-to-use perspective.

It's not a bad idea imo.