2926 replies to this topic

[QbN]

This forum thread reminds me of the US congress... too many people spending too much time having arguements instead of creating solutions when both sides have it all wrong...

A matchmaking FFP option is the solution to this issue so lets just move on to something else regarding this game...

Edited by QbN, 20 November 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Xelchon]

Guys I do see the discomfort youre experiencing about this, and yes seeing your mech's position "is" an advantage, but it has "massive backfires" trust me, I assure you.
I recent played a different game, which also is a remake of a very old classic, and the same third person view advantage applied there the same as here.

BUT...

As I got better in the game and faced off higher lvl players, the third person view revealed its backfire, which is...:
Aiming problems. You cant control trajectory+distance when firing as effective as you do in first person view. I had to cope with the first person in the end, despite the third-person view's advantages.

So the real problem with 3rd person view of the game can only be the "realistic stanpoint". Can't little helicopters such as "octocopters" give sight to their mech's users, yes. So I don't think even "that" is a problem.

BUT...

My advice is this: Make the third person view a "MODULE" that weighs a ton or two. Name it as a system. Problem solved.

Edited by Xelchon, 20 November 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[Alois Hammer]

Diffedge, on 20 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Kbob, then give the devs an alternative. What else could they do instead of making 3rd person?

Well, since they were going on about 3rd person as an answer to people who couldn't figure out Torso Twist and all the subtleties of movement and view direction not being locked together, I'd create a tutorial that explains this concept and trains them in the use of the not one but two existing indicators that show your movement direction and facing.

Radical concept, I know- taking what new players have trouble with and teaching them about it.

[Sinthrow]

I believe new players need a place to train. and not be thrown to the wolves. if 3rd person has to happen. let in happen in the training grounds only.
trail mechs vs trial mechs. no exp only money
this would be for new players only. so you would have to limit how they can get into the training grounds. (maybe by the number of wins the player has?)
I do not want 3rd person to be in the regular game......!!!
K i feel better.

[Diffedge]

Alois Hammer, on 20 November 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Well, since they were going on about 3rd person as an answer to people who couldn't figure out Torso Twist and all the subtleties of movement and view direction not being locked together, I'd create a tutorial that explains this concept and trains them in the use of the not one but two existing indicators that show your movement direction and facing.

Radical concept, I know- taking what new players have trouble with and teaching them about it.

So in other words, dont adopt the better system but lets teach them how to use the worse system.

[MrLee]

Here is a 3rd person view mode I could accept:

No hud, no crosshair
And the game would not show any mech you wouldn't be able to see in 1st person mode.

That way, 3rd person would be a quick way to orient yourself, but nothing more.

Edited by MrLee, 20 November 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[Jaynestown]

I would fit a module that gave me a 3rd person view option as opposed to a module with a zoom or faster sensor acquisition. How hard is that to explain in game terms? It's just a 360d camera stuck on the shoulder, probably similar looking to the AMS but with a little red light. Has anyone thought about implementing the view mode in that way? It could be much cheaper than the other modules (though that position is arguable).

[Kain]

don't implement 3rd person view as a playable view.

just add the camera tracking option, just like Mechwarrior 2, so you can admire your own mech and surroundings, but it is not a way to play the game.

stay close to your roots :-)

[DirePhoenix]

Gomos, on 20 November 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Clearly stating his standpoint, as well as the logic behind it, and the mechanisims for their decisions, topped off with a valid suggestion for an alternative and a sound understanding of demographics?

...

DirePhoenix for 2016?

Unfortunately you can also see how swiftly logic and reason gets swept aside in a forum where posters allow their blinding emotions to control how and what they post.

EDIT: And even worse, most people here don't read any of the posts preceding their own.

Few people will see that post, or the links to the information within, or even hit the little "callback arrow" on the quote dialog to see where those quotes came from or the context in which they were made, and simply post their tantrums about a rumor they heard based off of misinterpreted information about something that's not even being worked on (yet, if ever).

Edited by DirePhoenix, 20 November 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[Thornfoot]

Make a save and playback feature for the battle. In this you can have 3rd person, you can have fly around cameras and you can have video feeds that show exactly what each mech pilot was seeing and looking at.

This feature could be used to improve your own tactics / create movies of the battle / identify cheaters, bugs and exploits.

I would love to rewatch sections of the battles I was in to find out WTF happened.

[OtherGamer]

Can't we find some arrangement? If the people who want a 3rd person view hate the cockpit view because they find it too claustrophobic, then just add an option to toggle on/off the cockpit, it would not add so much disadvantage as they will only be able to see a bit more on all sides.

Another option that was in Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries was a back view, where you could see behind your back with some camera. (there was even one camera for under the mech, but never used it).

Now if those who ask for a 3rd person view do it because they have issues to see in which direction their legs are, then maybe PGI could find something to help them, like a Green bar on the HUD showing where the legs are pointing at.

Another method if they really want to implement a 3rd person view is to make the mech appear on the left or the right of the screen (so not placing the camera above the mech), with just a cross on the HUD on the middle of the screen, this would avoid people from seeing mechs hiding behind objects. (I even think that a similar view was integrated in Mechwarrior 4, but not 100% sure)

[TurdPursonView]

all that worry for nothing... whew... i'm glad this all got clarified

[DirePhoenix]

Frenchtoastman, on 20 November 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

There's no way to have a 3rd person view that will BOTH show the player their legs/torso relation (to supposedly help new players learn what's going on down there) and NOT give an advantage of seeing parts of the field you otherwise wouldn't be able to see. Even a very close over the shoulder cam (like the devs suggested would work) would solve NEITHER of these issues. It wouldn't help new players see enough more of their mech to make any discernable difference, and it would still allow you to look around a hill or building without peaking as much of your head out into the open.

Furthermore, learning to run barefoot won't help you get better at sprinting in rainboots. Getting used to 3rd person view only means you'll have a harder time getting used to 1st person.

The devs want to help new players? They need:
More information in an intuitive format, so players don't need Ohm's Guide if they want to know how much damage a PPC will do.

A working/built-in social environment were players can chat and group and form cohesion.

A LIVE training mode so they can get a feel for the mechs and piloting without feeling guilty or stupid. Training mode doesn't need to be fun, just a small area to navigate, a couple land-marks, and a vocalized+captioned tutor with highlights on what's being discussed to lead you through a couple things.

Here you go. I've described a method that you can have a third-person view in-game that allows users to view their 'mech in its environment, with a minimal impact on balance or gameplay.

While using that view, users can move the camera around, and while they "may" see something that gives them a tactical advantage (like seeing which way their legs are facing, or the 'mech ducking behind the hill in front of them), that advantage is minimalized due to the fact that there is no weapons capability, no HUD (which means no targeting), and movement controls are locked (if you have your throttle set before you snap into that view, you keep moving in that direction at that speed) until you hop back into your cockpit. This is only useful to look around, get your bearings, and take screenshots. If you want to target, shoot, or control your 'mech, or even type in text chat you have to jump back into the cockpit. Also, similar to the in-cockpit freelook, you have to be holding down a button to stay in that view, as soon as you let go, you're back in your cockpit.

You *could* use this to scout while shut down, but that requires 1) that you be shut down, to which the disadvantages should be obvious, and 2) that the pilot is able to identify and report enemy movement without the aid of a HUD.

This isn't to say that this game would not also benefit from a live, in-game tutorial mode.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 20 November 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[JTAlweezy]

3rd person view was an option in all mech games as i recall. Also you couldnt get out of the mechs then either. Its just fun to actually look at your mech as your piloting it.

[Baertiger]

Jeez, please stop wasting precious developer resources on something as useless as a 3rd person view...that's total BS. Better focus your resources on more important things...like getting the client more stable, adding clickable menues, getting rid of the mech lab bug, and the list goes on and on and on...ohh...did i mention new content?!?

F*** 3rd person view!!!

[Dividion]

In my opinion, PGI should create an "Auxilliary 'Mech Surveillance" camera. You could put it in your AMS slot (since that's always at the top of the mech), and you activate it during a drop for a very limited 3rd person view.

If you lose the torso/arm that contains the camera during battle, you lose the ability to switch to that camera. Also, you sacrifice having an anti-missile system.

Opinions?

I think if we had a traditional 3rd person camera, it would only be fair to remove all HUD elements, since those belong in the cockpit.

[FactorlanP]

And now we have a post from Bryan


Bryan Ekman
<p class="author_info" style="margin: 15px 10px; padding: 0px; width: 155px; float: left; font-size: 12px; text-align: center; overflow: hidden; color: rgb(149, 149, 149); font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; line-height: 15px; background-color: rgb(25, 25, 25);">
[color=#777777]
Creative Director[/color]

• 
  
• [color=red]Administrators[/color]
  
• 
  
• 739 posts

• [color=#505050]Location[/color]Vancouver, BC

[color=#959595]

[color=#A4A4A4]
Posted Today, 02:56 PM[/color]

Third Person

Holy kerfuffle Batman…

Third Person is being reviewed internally as an optional gameplay mode. No final decisions or designs have been made yet, however preliminary thoughts include:

• Players would be able to choose 1st or 3rd person or toggle between both.
  
• Players would be able to select how they are matched against other players: Only 1st person, Only 3rd person, or Mixed. This will preserve the integrity of matches and allow players maximum control over their gaming experience.
  
• The concern with a matchmaking solution is player base fragmentation, part of the reason why 3rd person isn’t being rushed to production.
  
• 3rd person would not change how LOS or targeting work.
  
• Players may gain a visual tactical advantage, depending on how much freedom in camera movement is given. This is subject to designing a camera system that feels good.
  
• The game isn’t easier per se in 3rd person, so we do not feel changing the meta rewards is necessary.
  
• 3rd person would be default or there will be a prompt for new players to select their view point.
  
• New players will benefit from seeing how torso twist and throttle work from the outside. This reduces new user friction and gets them into the game faster, with less frustration.
  
• This feature is designed to maximize player choice, by letting people select which mode they prefer.

I don't know about you guys, but this post from Bryan does nothing to address most of the concerns..

Edited by FactorlanP, 20 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Alois Hammer]

Diffedge, on 20 November 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

So in other words, dont adopt the better system but lets teach them how to use the worse system.

That's what you and the third-person crowd seem to be advocating, yes.

[AvatarofWhat]

Really, time and time again PGI disappoints...

their thinking of making 3rd person default? Are you ******* kidding me?

no 8-man...are they trying to destroy the current community?

I'm a patient guy but it just seems like they are trolling us at every turn...

Also, WTH does the 1x have jump jets and not the 3d?

[Alois Hammer]

TurdPursonView, on 20 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

all that worry for nothing... whew... i'm glad this all got clarified

-snort-

http://mwomercs.com/...06#entry1458406

Quote

For new users, 3rd person could be default or there will be a prompt for new players to select their view point.

So, 3rd person becomes default to preserve 1st person being one of the "pillars of the design?"

These guys should really go into politics, they've got it down.

Edited by Alois Hammer, 20 November 2012 - 01:14 PM.