791 replies to this topic

[Dren Nas]

(EDIT: Stop beating a dead horse. This post is not someone crying about wanting LRMs back to what they were when they were bugged for 48 hours. That horse is dead, and has nothing to do with my reasoning for the following post. Bury it, move on, and stop saying that's what I'm asking for because it isn't.)

At random times throughout the beta, I would pick a mech and run out in the open, be spotted, and diesoon afterward to the sky falling on top of my head. At others, I would be the one launching explosive death. I learned that to get away from LRMs you use cover and even powerdown randomly to break targeting locks.

Today, I can sit in my catapult and drop hell on an atlas trudging out in the open with my entire 700+ missiles and not even phase him.

It's quite disheartening to the point that I've even taken all LRMs off my Catapults and replaced them with SRMs or SRM Streaks.... or even removed missiles completely replaced with lasers.. or even dual Gauss (lolgausscat).

My point is that since the LRM nurf, there's really no reason to equip them when other long range weapons deal so much more damage. Oh, and before you say something along the lines of "QQmoar" or "That's all he plays", I have an atlas and yen lo wang that I play quite often.

TL;DR: LRMs have been nurfed too hard.

EDIT: Since there are so many of you that don't care to read through the thread before bashing me because I'm "whining about LRM's not still being broken", I just want to say I'm not. They were broken and op before the hotfix.

For the last time, this isn't a post crying about the needed fix for LRMs. This post is about the hotfix going too far and making them near useless.

Edited by Dren Nas, 11 November 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[UraniumOverdose]

Good, the less LRM's the better.

[Dren Nas]

UraniumOverdose, on 10 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Good, the less LRM's the better.

Why?

If you're going to make such a definitive statement, give us a reason why... and don't say "LRMs are ezmoade!" because they aren't unless some scrub tries to run through a large open area.

Edited by Dren Nas, 10 November 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Noth]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

At random times throughout the beta, I would pick a mech and run out in the open, be spotted, and diesoon afterward to the sky falling on top of my head. At others, I would be the one launching explosive death. I learned that to get away from LRMs you use cover and even powerdown randomly to break targeting locks.

Today, I can sit in my catapult and drop hell on an atlas trudging out in the open with my entire 700+ missiles and not even phase him.

It's quite disheartening to the point that I've even taken all LRMs off my Catapults and replaced them with SRMs or SRM Streaks.... or even removed missiles completely replaced with lasers.. or even dual Gauss (lolgausscat).

My point is that since the LRM nurf, there's really no reason to equip them when other long range weapons deal so much more damage. Oh, and before you say something along the lines of "QQmoar" or "That's all he plays", I have an atlas and yen lo wang that I play quite often.

TL;DR: LRMs have been nurfed too hard.

No they haven't, you just can't solo the big mechs as easily now. They still pack a hurt and when used smartly (in combo with other weapons and team mates) they are very effective. As a support weapon, it isn't always all about what you do, but how what you do effects your team mates. I still see LRMs grabbing kills and putting up good damage numbers.

Edited by Noth, 10 November 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Ghostrider0067]

I can see the usefulness of missile systems but can also understand your gripe. Personally, I prefer variety and it would be very unlikely I would ever leave a mech in a stock configuration. I suppose it also depends on your playstyle and at what range(s) you prefer to engage. While Gauss rifles have excellent punch, you'll find yourself out of ammo if you're cutting loose and frequently missing your target.

Again, the point of the Catapult is a simple one: Rain down rocket propelled death from long distance. Nothing says you have to play it that way, but that's what it was designed for and how it was intended to be used. Perhaps you should switch to something else that suits your tactics more closely and find that happy balance.

[Dren Nas]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

No they haven't, you just can't solo the big mechs as easily now. They still pack a hurt and when used smartly (in combo with other weapons and team mates) they are very effective. As a support weapon, it isn't always all about what you do, but how what you do effects your team mates. I still see LRMs grabbing kills and putting up good damage numbers.

So, what you're saying is, "you are a support mech that requires the support of other mechs to apply damage." You can not tell me that a LRM catapult will do decent damage when your target locks flash on and off constantly. With all the ways to break locks and find cover when LRMs are able to hit their target the damage done is insignificant.

Ghostrider0067, on 10 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

I can see the usefulness of missile systems but can also understand your gripe. Personally, I prefer variety and it would be very unlikely I would ever leave a mech in a stock configuration. I suppose it also depends on your playstyle and at what range(s) you prefer to engage. While Gauss rifles have excellent punch, you'll find yourself out of ammo if you're cutting loose and frequently missing your target.

Again, the point of the Catapult is a simple one: Rain down rocket propelled death from long distance. Nothing says you have to play it that way, but that's what it was designed for and how it was intended to be used. Perhaps you should switch to something else that suits your tactics more closely and find that happy balance.

True, but the point is that through my experience with other weapon systems the current state of LRMs is underwhelming to the point where I take them off for more useful things like a CASE for my other weapon's ammo.

[Noth]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

So, what you're saying is, "you are a support mech that requires the support of other mechs to apply damage." You can not tell me that a LRM catapult will do decent damage when your target locks flash on and off constantly. With all the ways to break locks and find cover when LRMs are able to hit their target the damage done is insignificant.

What I'm saying, you are a support mech that allows his team mates to kill faster without putting themselves in immediate danger. If damage done is insignificant why do I see so many people get absolutely trashed by LRMs for not finding cover?

[Dr Killinger]

Thing is, there are few boat configurations that can kill an Atlas with impunity, much less so from 1km away. Before the hotfix, an Atlas in the open was dead. Afterwards, it isn't, but this isn't some strange pheonmena that defies logic. An Atlas is tough.

LRMs are still dangerous, but they are now as they should be, a support weapon. They suppress enemies, keep them in cover, and can turn the tide of a battle. LRM support turns a sure defeat into a sure victory. This is very valuable, but difficult to coordinate without great teamwork and focussing targets. This is great, because no LRM boat should be able to solo the toughest mech in the Inner Sphere.

[RG Notch]

So if it's not OP you don't use it. Check.

[UraniumOverdose]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why?

If you're going to make such a definitive statement, give us a reason why... and don't say "LRMs are ezmoade!" because they aren't unless some scrub tries to run through a large open area.

Any weapon that allows to sit behind cover 1000M away and still deal damage, should not do a ton of damage. As others have said it's a support weapon for softening up your targets that if played properly presents little risk to yourself. If you want a weapon system that does all the work for you, then live with the fact that you don't get the high damage numbers or the multiple kills per game that brawlers deserve to get.

[Shaddock]

When LRMs get to where they are no longer feared on the battlefield, they arent doing their jobs. Weapons are meant to be scary. If/when the forums constantly cry foul because they died while strolling through the open we are going to be left with doing nothing but shooting teddy bears and hugs at each other.

[Ghostrider0067]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

True, but the point is that through my experience with other weapon systems the current state of LRMs is underwhelming to the point where I take them off for more useful things like a CASE for my other weapon's ammo.

Point taken. To be honest, I've not yet DL'ed the game since my rig is old and in need of a rebuild; however, I am an old school tabletop player and have tons of experience with the game in general. I suppose that I'm not qualified to speak on the topic specifically due to my lack of in-game experience at this point, but I'll be changing all that very soon.

Given what you say is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), it's a pretty sad action on the devs part. The LRMs are an integral part of that design and others like it. It makes absolutely no sense to limit missile effectiveness to the point of which you speak. Giving a full LRM barrage should certainly give an Atlas or any other mech a moment of pause and something to think about. Anything less than that isn't true to the game.

[Athanos Kerensky]

Dr Killinger, on 10 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Thing is, there are few boat configurations that can kill an Atlas with impunity, much less so from 1km away. Before the hotfix, an Atlas in the open was dead. Afterwards, it isn't, but this isn't some strange pheonmena that defies logic. An Atlas is tough.

LRMs are still dangerous, but they are now as they should be, a support weapon. They suppress enemies, keep them in cover, and can turn the tide of a battle. LRM support turns a sure defeat into a sure victory. This is very valuable, but difficult to coordinate without great teamwork and focussing targets. This is great, because no LRM boat should be able to solo the toughest mech in the Inner Sphere.

I agree with this.

[Stone Wall]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why?

If you're going to make such a definitive statement, give us a reason why... and don't say "LRMs are ezmoade!" because they aren't unless some scrub tries to run through a large open area.

pretty much ez mode. but now the LRM boats are having to get used to that they can't backwalk forever.

[Dren Nas]

Dr Killinger, on 10 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Thing is, there are few boat configurations that can kill an Atlas with impunity, much less so from 1km away. Before the hotfix, an Atlas in the open was dead. Afterwards, it isn't, but this isn't some strange pheonmena that defies logic. An Atlas is tough.

LRMs are still dangerous, but they are now as they should be, a support weapon. They suppress enemies, keep them in cover, and can turn the tide of a battle. LRM support turns a sure defeat into a sure victory. This is very valuable, but difficult to coordinate without great teamwork and focussing targets. This is great, because no LRM boat should be able to solo the toughest mech in the Inner Sphere.

Actually, yes, why not let a catapult that fires every one of his 700+ to 1000+ LRMs on an atlas destroy it. Why is it such a bad concept to punish the stupid for not playing smart? Why say "oh it's an atlas! you shouldn't be able to solo one!" when PGI's philosophy is that every mech can kill the other? Right now LRM mechs can NOT kill anyone solo unless it's basically a killsteal.

Edited by Dren Nas, 10 November 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Shalune]

I can see where you're coming from, but I think LRMs are about where they need to be now. The thing is they're not supposed to be racking up kills. Not because of the damage they do, but how they do it.

LRMs are light artillery so they are largely meant to suppress targets and apply sustained damage when properly sighted. Yes your damage is going to be low compared to other mechs when something rushes into the open, but you have the unique advantage of firing over obstacles and other mechs to avoid return fire. This also gives you higher up time with LRMs than other weapons. I definitely get the frustration of constantly losing locks, a lot of players don't understand what R is or why it's important. Just do your best to choose your shots and watch the map to know when you may be firing into cover.

This is a slow role and very rarely glamorous. So now that the damage on its own isn't so competitive, if the playstyle doesn't sound appealing I'd recommend something else.

[Shaddock]

Shalune, on 10 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

LRMs are light artillery so they are largely meant to suppress targets and apply sustained damage when properly sighted.

At their current state they aren't dangerous enough to punish people that wander in the open, and thus have little to no suppressive effect. Mechwarrior is suppose to be rock, paper, scissors with giant robots, but at the moment it is turning into checkers. If all we want is a close range brawler, and we cry until we get it, then others games like Hawken which have more natural tendencies towards that game play will come out and crush MWO.

[Shalune]

A target in the open will take far more damage from other weapons, yes. For suppression I meant targets in cover. In the open though you still have the advantage of being able to shoot at a target without worrying about return fire.

Even so, I had a game yesterday where we had to charge a hill of LRMs (rest of the team was occupied elsewhere) over open ground on caustic. The damage we took on the way in wasn't negligible by a long shot.

[Dren Nas]

Shalune, on 10 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

I can see where you're coming from, but I think LRMs are about where they need to be now. The thing is they're not supposed to be racking up kills. Not because of the damage they do, but how they do it.

LRMs are light artillery so they are largely meant to suppress targets and apply sustained damage when properly sighted. Yes your damage is going to be low compared to other mechs when something rushes into the open, but you have the unique advantage of firing over obstacles and other mechs to avoid return fire. This also gives you higher up time with LRMs than other weapons. I definitely get the frustration of constantly losing locks, a lot of players don't understand what R is or why it's important. Just do your best to choose your shots and watch the map to know when you may be firing into cover.

This is a slow role and very rarely glamorous. So now that the damage on its own isn't so competitive, if the playstyle doesn't sound appealing I'd recommend something else.

Right now, LRMs are so uncompetative that myself and all of my buddies that play are just dumbfounded that they're as unuseful as they are. If a LRM boat isn't supposed to do "competative damage" why not just remomve LRMs from the game so everyone goes to brawling type weaponry and make the game more one dimentional.

GrimlockONE, on 10 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

The problem is highlighted. Nuff said.

Excuse me for giving money to the company that makes a game people play for free.

Edited by Dren Nas, 10 November 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[bogmali]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

No they haven't, you just can't solo the big mechs as easily now. They still pack a hurt and when used smartly (in combo with other weapons and team mates) they are very effective.

Yesterday I was in a match (twice) where we were engaging an Atlas (along with 3 others) up close and another dropping LRMs and he somehow was able to withstand it and kept fighting.

Next match fitted me against a Centurion and another Hunchback that was helping me (and LRM support) and we still could not knock this guy out!

Before the hotfix, I used to be able to brawl and 2-3 salvos of LRM support later-the target is reduced. Now, I see LRM boats go through their ammo arsenal and could not register a single kill!

Just my observation

Edited by bogmali, 10 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.