49 replies to this topic

[Taryys]

Ok, after a few threads talking about stats and XP/CBIlls etc I am curious what kind of changes we can suggest to reward team based play and roles over personal play.

I have posted a little bit here in this thread, but I have not concentrated on this topic:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

Here is the directly relevant and modified excerpt:

Quote

... adjust XP/CBill Rewards:

* remove the Win/Loss bonus
* balance out the XP/CBill rewards based on roles and weighted based on weight and role of mech; in mech lab allow mech to set the role that the mech will perform in (scout, brawler, Long range support, etc)

You see here I did not elaborate, but I would like us to do that now.

Perhaps we can start by listing everything that we can get XP/CBIlls for and then see how they fit in the scheme of team/role vs personal reward.

Edited by Taryys, 19 November 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

All that would do is constrict certain mech classes to certain roles. That's decreasing the diversity of the game and directly conflicts with the customization pillar that is so central to Mechwarrior and Battletech as a whole.

Team-based play is already rewarded in the sense that properly coordinated teams are better able to make more efficient kills and receive vastly superior salvage rewards.

Please don't make me link to the Salvage thread again just to prove they exist, because I'm really getting rather tired of it.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I have found the single biggest XP/Cbill boost is winning the match, which requires team play, so that should stay.

One the things that detracts is "Spotting". it encourages scouts to bounce around targets instead of maintaining a lock for LRMS. This cold be solved by awarding a spot bonus to the scout only on target destruction.

We definatly need awards for blocking base cap. and it should be based on the ammount of time (or damaged) taken preventing a base cap.

The devs mentioned XPs for following commander waypoint but I haven't seen any yet.

[Taryys]

Please do post a link.
I am curious.

[Vlad Ward]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

I have found the single biggest XP/Cbill boost is winning the match

Sorry, this is patently false for anyone not running a Trial Mech.

Taryys, on 19 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Please do post a link.
I am curious.

http://mwomercs.com/...98#entry1324198

[Taryys]

This is also an effort to reduce the epeen stat-whores too.

[JebusGeist]

I would suggest making it so that the rewards for winning a match are greater than the rewards for killing 5 people and still losing...

[Taryys]

That Thread is not talking about reward for salvage of efficient killing.

This is about rewards that specifically target team play.
We can look at adding more like the TAG/Narc one I recommended. Surely there are more ideas.

Vlad Ward'

http://mwomercs.com/...98#entry1324198

[Vlad Ward]

Since you adjusted your OP, I'll reply more generally.

Awarding players for methods rather than results could force them to play the way you want them to play, but it wouldn't be fun. You're forcing them to play the game in a very small number of ways and leave little room for creativity.

If you want to make a fun game, you reward the player for results and then leave it up to them to decide how to best achieve those results.

The problem right now is simply that most people don't know what results PGI is rewarding, and so they just sorta do whatever they feel like.

I think it would really help if they posted a longer Developer explanation of Salvage bonuses, as repeatedly reposting screenshots of user results just doesn't seem to address a large enough portion of the community to make a difference.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 19 November 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Casus125]

Get rid of win/loss bonsues.

Tie Cbill to performance.

Every 10 points of damage = 1000 cbills (ball parking)

Every kill = 10000 cbills

Assist = 5000 cbills

Spot = 1000

Spot + Teammate Firing and/or damaging target = 2500

Similar bonsues for ECM when it's implemented.

If you want team based play, you have to incentivize it.

[damonvile]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

I have found the single biggest XP/Cbill boost is winning the match, which requires team play, so that should stay.

Doesn't winning the match only add 20k ? 80k vrs 100k ?

I didn't notice any other multiplier to the other rewards for a win ?

That's the biggest problem with the whole system imo. The game pays far to much to people who do nothing. So much so that you can afk in any mech and make money every time win or lose. Granted people who afk are pretty useless even when they do play....but it sucks having them on your team.

[One Medic Army]

I'd say increasing the difference between winning and loosing.
Make people care about winning more, make winning rewarded by more than 20k cbills plus another 20-40k in salvage.

Of course, this can't be implemented before they work some kinks out of several systems: matchmaking, trial mechs, repairs for instance.

Winning vs loosing in a trial mech is hardly any difference. Winning vs loosing in an owned mech varies wildly depending on your repair bills.
Later on in CW I'd love to see some missions reward with X money on win, X money on loss, plus up to X in expenses covered. Encourage people to bring a mech that costs a certain amount to run but people who bring something overly expensive to the fight are on the hook for it.

Edited by One Medic Army, 19 November 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[damonvile]

Casus125, on 19 November 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Get rid of win/loss bonsues.

Tie Cbill to performance.

Every 10 points of damage = 1000 cbills (ball parking)

Every kill = 10000 cbills

Assist = 5000 cbills

I've never loved the kill reward. I've done as little as 5 points of damage in a match and had a kill. ( it was a "lucky" shot I wasn't even aiming at the guy and died right after )

kills are often not "earned" by the person who did the most damage. Just the guy that got lucky and shot him last. Big rewards for getting kill shots often lead to people holding shots waiting for the mech's health to drop into their killable zone. Not exactly team play.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Vlad Ward, on 19 November 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Sorry, this is patently false for anyone not running a Trial Mech.

Do tell. I don't get to see that loss screen very often but if I recall it is worht about about 140,000 compared to 220,000 on the win screen. 80k is definately is definately worth the effort.

[Vlad Ward]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Do tell. I don't get to see that loss screen very often but if I recall it is worht about about 140,000 compared to 220,000 on the win screen. 80k is definately is definately worth the effort.

The win reward is 100,000 versus 60,000 for losses (I think), but it's not the highest post-match reward.

That title is currently held by Salvage bonus, which can hit over 100k in addition to all other rewards.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 19 November 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

The current system already benefits the team equally for the various rolls they are intended to play.

I used to advocate a "The more you bring, the more you should get in return." policy as obviously bringing a more expensive mech should lead to greater bonuses to compensate for the higher repair bills. BUT, this leads to everyone running the same build which brings back the most cash instead of just bringing what they want or what most benefits the team.

[Casus125]

damonvile, on 19 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

I've never loved the kill reward. I've done as little as 5 points of damage in a match and had a kill. ( it was a "lucky" shot I wasn't even aiming at the guy and died right after )

kills are often not "earned" by the person who did the most damage. Just the guy that got lucky and shot him last. Big rewards for getting kill shots often lead to people holding shots waiting for the mech's health to drop into their killable zone. Not exactly team play.

Meh, if you did the bulk of the damage, your going to get a hefty reward anyway for damage + assist; if everybody was focus firing, still get bonus from assist + damage; if you picked off a weak foe from running away, there's your incentive to be the vulture.

Big rewards for afk and suicide farming should be your biggest concern, not "kill stealing"

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Reading is hard, edited to remove everything that has already been said...

Edited by Rizzelbizzeg, 19 November 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Taryys]

Can someone list what the current XP/Cbill rewards are so we have something to work with?

[Vlad Ward]

Taryys, on 19 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Can someone list what the current XP/Cbill rewards are so we have something to work with?

Damage: Damage Dealt x 10 c-bills

Kills: 2,000 c-bills

Spotting: 2,000 c-bills per spot (this can be done more than once per mech, each time an LRM is fired on a Mech you're keeping LOS on)

Components: 500 per part

Win: 100,000 c-bills

Loss: 60,000 c-bills (I think)

Salvage: Approximately 0-150,000 c-bills, based on the content and the condition of enemy mechs (Only awarded if you win, Trial Mechs can't get this, whole team gets the same Salvage bonus)

EXP is rewarded differently:

Components: 15XP per part

Spotting: 25XP per spot

Kills/Assists: (Damage Dealt to that Mech + 25) XP for killshots. Damage Dealt XP for Assists. (I could be wrong here. Would appreciate it if someone with more data on this would double check)

Win: 300XP

Edited by Vlad Ward, 19 November 2012 - 02:06 PM.