299 replies to this topic

[torgian]

I don't think it's punishing the players. You have a choice: Buy three chassis to level them up, or just buy the one you like and move on. You don't NEED to be expert/master level on these mechs to be effective.

[Warskull]

I understand why they did it, they wanted to put pressure on the mech slots to encourage you to buy more. The mech slots are reasonably priced too. The problem is the 3x rule is absolutely brutal on new players. It costs a ton of C-bills to field 3 decent mechs.

If you don't elite mechs you get a disadvantage. In a way it is a very subtle, low impact pay to win.

I think it needs reworked, but I don't know how.

[Wintersdark]

No.

Call it what you will, it's just a levelling system much like any other xp/levelling system.

You don't *have* to buy the other variants, you can spend all of $3 to convert unneeded XP in your favoured mech to get your basics in others.

Honestly, I like how the XP system works. I like how it encourages you to get experience in different variants to better understand the underlying chassis, not just one specific variant. From there, going to master learning the other chassis' in your weight class expands your skills.

A grind? Sure, it is. Every MMO (except the simplest shooters) has a grind. It doesn't matter how fast the grind works, or if it doesn't require other chassis, it would still be a grind. However, it's not to punish players. After all, all you need to do is play the game!

The only real (game design) reason it requires multiple variants is to serve as a c-bill sink and to encourage (but not force!) people to spend money. Both of those are very important things for the game to do: Without a c-bill sink, money becomes valueless. And if people don't spend money? Then there's no game for us to play. So, either way: Play only with your favoured mech and cough up a couple bucks, or spend the c-bills and time in other variants.

[Tennex]

clan mechs don't have variants i don't see how they will implement the clans with the current system. also i dislike that it prevents some mechs from getting in purelly becuase there are not enough variants

[Rofleupagus]

I'd rather them just make me need 10x the amount of xp on 1 variant than having to get 3 variants.

[POWR]

For one thing it made me buy other variants and experience a different playstyle in the same chasis that I otherwise might not have done... So, on one part, yes, it's kinda "meh", but on the other hand, you get to experience more variants. Perhaps chassis level experience should be available to all... so if I drive an atlas around a lot, and an awesome and a stalker, it would all count towards upgrading to elite specialisations.

[Eddrick]

To me. It gave me more experiance with the chassis, in general. Also, by experimenting with the other Catapults. I stumbled across a "pseudo MadCat" design from the C1. The incentive to use the other variants was a good thing for me.

[Grey Ghost]

Wintersdark, on 13 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

No.

Call it what you will, it's just a levelling system much like any other xp/levelling system.

You don't *have* to buy the other variants, you can spend all of $3 to convert unneeded XP in your favoured mech to get your basics in others.

Yes, you can Master the other Mechs without ever sitting in the pilot seat using XP to GXP conversion for some MC. However you cannot spend GXP on a Mech you do not own, and therein lies the rub.

This might not even bother me if the Mechs weren't so damned expensive MC wise.

[Wintersdark]

Tennex, on 13 January 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

clan mechs don't have variants i don't see how they will implement the clans with the current system. also i dislike that it prevents some mechs from getting in purelly becuase there are not enough variants

I imagine they'll implement the Clan mechs in the same way they do IS mechs. This is another discussion, however.

Grey Ghost, on 13 January 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yes, you can Master the other Mechs without ever sitting in the pilot seat using XP to GXP conversion for some MC. However you cannot spend GXP on a Mech you do not own, and therein lies the rub.

This might not even bother me if the Mechs weren't so damned expensive MC wise.

Of course. The rest of my post covers this: You're SUPPOSED to buy those mechs. You don't have to pilot them, but this provides a cbill sink. Without this, you'd just amass mountains of cbills. You don't need a lot of mechbays, as you can sell them once you're done - incidentally, that's been my approach, though I'm actually piloting those chassis. I haven't seen the need to have more than my 4 mech bays yet, and I've gotten Elite with my Flame, and working on Cats now.

It's a design feature, not a bug: There needs to be a cash sink in the game, and this is it.

[Henree]

we should drop repair and re arm
drop community warfare
drop xp
drop cost for mech and equipment
implement unlimited respawns
replace all mechs with autobots

ffs

and please remove any challenge and or depth!

Edited by Henri Schoots, 14 January 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Tank]

"No" for me. When I done configurating mech it's always a pleasure to play and more like "Wow... I have that tonnes of exp laying useless", and then I go next modification, then previous stuff go all over again but with some gameplay change witch is welcome.
So actually grateful for what we have now. Also if I buy a platform, I like it a lot, like a Cats or Ravens.

[Butane9000]

I do admit it sucks at times. Especially for me and my Ravens since the 4X is such garbage. However it has the benefit of having you test out other variants.

Best example I can come up with is my Awesome. I have 3 of them:

AWS-8Q - Long to mid range laser boat (5xML, 2xLL)

AWS-9M - Long range rapid fire PPC (3xPPC, 2xSRM2, 1xSRM4)

AWS-8R - Long range LRM support (2xLRM15, 2xLRM5, 2xML, TAG)

My plans for the 8R have worked out as I imagined but it's a little weak in close quarters. Which has me eyeballing the 8T variant to replace my 8R. The 8T would allow me to retain most of my LRMs while being able to increase my close range defense. I can then rebuild the 8R into a SRM boat if I choose to (into something like 4xSRM6 w/ Artemis and 3xML).

It also gives you a reason to experiment. So yes, it does have some negative effects when some variants are clearly weaker then others. But it also isn't as terrible as it could be.

Edited by Butane9000, 14 January 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Julian Tifflor]

i startd recently and likd to get a nice atlas ddc...but now i realize i have to play like 250 matchs to get the other 2 and requip them to my needs. this is just insane with no founder bonus.

i rather buy other mechs and have fun with variety than grinding that much just to get elite skill for one mech.
i dont mind buying mech bays to have a nice arsenal and a ariety of mechs...but to play that many matchs just for the sake of elite skills is just grind and work. i want to have fun not grind to get elite skills, even if they are good.

250 games is just a guess if i think about defeats and victories...i estimate around 100.000 each game so it might even take longer or more short if you are pretty good. but with only a few friends random pug will most often hand you a loss in the end.

i dont mind founders getting more...they paid for it...they earn to get a little extra. but without it assault mechs are just insane to buy or any XL Engine mech just to complete your 3 mech thing.

its too harsh for normal players, not sure how to tweak it though and their intentions for it.

[pseudocoder]

Enig, on 18 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

I want to drive my 4x now until the end of oblivion. But even if I put in thousands of hours into my 4x I will never be a master?

How does that make sense?

I think it makes sense to argue that to take your knowledge and skill of the chassis to the next level, you have to familiarize yourself with a number of the variants. They could just make the grind 3x as long, and make you pay extra Cbills to get to each level, but how would that make the game more fun?

You are complaining about a grind design that forces you to do new (and by extension, ostensibly more interesting) things. Why????

[pseudocoder]

Butane9000, on 14 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I do admit it sucks at times. Especially for me and my Ravens since the 4X is such garbage. However it has the benefit of having you test out other variants.

Grind mechanic gets you to explore the game? Wow sounds like "punishment". What a terrible game mechanic. /sarcasm

[Henree]

i think having to do the same maps over and over and over ...river city night REALLY?!! seriously?!!?!?

[Schranz]

I think what they hope you do is get xp with your favorite mech then convert mech xp to general xp to max it out that way,..

I did it that way atleast,..the downside is you still have to buy the mechs

[CypherHalo]

I voted no but feel I have to explain my vote. While I'm not too crazy on the idea of buying 3 variants to level up your mech. I think it does have some advantages. For one, it really shows the diversity of the hardpoints and I think that is fun and can add something to the game. If you like the mech enough, I enjoy playing around with its different variants and even if you don't like missile, I think it can be valuable to play with a missile mech and learn how to do so. So I think the system is good in that it strongly encourages players to use the variants and extends the life of the game because it takes time for you to get to the mastery level.

Now, here's the big BUT. Mechbays totally wreck this. So long as you are limited to 4 mechbays but need 3 variants, you do feel like you are being punished. Mechbays are an obvious cash grab and they are, to me, disgusting. They need to make money? How about make the game enjoyable enough that I will pay to buy a new mech rather then grind for it because I'm having such a good time. I did this with League of Legends. Yeah, I could have gone through the grind but I was enjoying the game enough that I felt it would be worthwhile to pay and get a few new champs and some skins. I didn't have to buy "barracks" to house them. Cash grabs have no place in an F2P game, IMO, they just punish free players. So, eliminate mech bays and I think the system is fine. So, I voted no because overall I think the system is fine as is, except for mechbays.

[CypherHalo]

Henri Schoots, on 14 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

we should drop repair and re arm
drop community warfare
drop xp
drop cost for mech and equipment
implement unlimited respawns
replace all mechs with autobots

ffs

and please remove any challenge and or depth!

No one is advocating most of that. What people want is to enjoy their game and their is a level of grind that is "a grind too far". MWO has consistently been tipping in at "too much grind" and has only recently started to right the scales through the cadet bonus and removing RnR costs. Everyone who is making suggestions is doing so because they want the game to be more fun. The devs will do as they please but I would encourage them to listen.

[Genghis Black Death Khan]

I don't have the time, don't want the time, don't wish to ever have time, and damn well never better have the time to grind out 3 of whatever chassis for some silly upgrade. There are specific variants that I enjoy, and those are the ones I'm going to play, nothing more. PGI is out of it's damn mind all in all. MC cost, premium time cost, upgrade cost, I could go on.