10 replies to this topic

[Zakatak]

I'll admit to not being very in-tune with Battletech (haven't played the board game or read the books yet), but I do know that Battletech is very far from utopia. Times of war outlast times of peace. There is no unified human government to speak of. It is like Star Trek, only exactly backwards. But, still, it isn't Warhammer 40k by a long shot.

In your opinion, would you consider Battletech to be a dystopian future? Would you say that the average living conditions in are worse then the modern world?

All 5 Successor States have about 200 billion people, and this is split between 2000 worlds. So the average population per planet would be about 500 million, and considering that alot of planets are just "little colonies" as oppose to bustling centers of trade, I could see how overpopulation might be a problem. Otherwise, I don't know enough lore to say myself. FTL travel is too slow to be something the average citizen (or even upper-middle class) could do.

EDIT: I guess I didn't state what time period either. I am aware humanity had a "golden age" and a "dark age". Investigate multiple ones if you choose.

Edited by Zakatak, 01 May 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Xaks]

I would say it is, in a way.

It obviously is, at best, only one of an almost infinite number of possibilities.

Then, you need to start qualifying "average lifestyle" and "best living conditions".

There will be people living in squalor, starving to death, and dying painfully of disease on every single planet, regardless. There will be crime, corruption, and people that hook other people's genitals up to car batteries on every planet. There will be religions, war, disagreements, cheating, lying, and every other type of skull-duggery on every inhabited planet.

We, as a species, are broken. We are both the greatest work of art, capable of incalculable beauty and selfless determination, and we also will die as blackened from our collective thoughtlessness and evil as our shriveled hearts bear out, as children starve and medications are withheld from those with no money.

We're the problem, not the planetary location or the technology. For every super scientific advancement, there is a super weapon that can slaughter indiscriminately. For every miracle cure, there are 100 toxins and poisons, For every outreach clinic there are 10 meth labs and crack dens. For every hoo...um, "attractive woman of loose moral standards", there are 10 "conservative" "moral" "religious" pretenders trolling airport bathrooms.

We may have faster than light travel and fusion power, but that guy over there doesn't need unlimited electricity to be a jerk or steal your wallet.

[Pygar]

The BattleTech/Mechwarrior universe is a Dystopian future, even though it doesn't "advertise" the fact as heavily as some other games or stories. The MW universe is set in a time when mankind had accomplished a galactic utopia of sorts (The Star League) that was destroyed by smaller factions fighting over power, and their fighting has not only not resulted in sustainable victory for any of those factions, but in a loss of technology as a whole for mankind. In much of the original fluff, Technology is a psuedo science and a borderline religion, and while the factions of the inner sphere could maintain machines and factories that were built centuries ago, they don't have the ability to make anything new or improved, and the very wars they wage put their dwindling technology at risk.(Very much like Warhammer 40k, or like Asimov's Foundation Series books) In original cannon, Mechwarriors were often lucky to even have a Mech in the first place, passed down to them as a family heirloom or maybe awarded to them for years of training and service to one of the Major Houses, and if they lost their Mech good luck getting another one...on the other side of original cannon, the Battlemechs featured in the Tech readout books or in the stories were in existence only because the factories that made them had somehow survived through the ages. (Or, in some cases the Mechs could actually no longer be produced, but were common enough at some point that they could still be found in somebodies army.)

I kinda lost track during the Clan invasions, but the despite the Clanners advanced technology, they did not fix the situation- they pretty much gave the Inner Sphere the secrets of their tech in a chivalric gesture (because they were tired of just shredding the armies of the IS) but, eventually their ability to produce tech also waned, and the latest iteration of MW (Dark Age) suggests that battlefield technology had degraded to the point that armies were fielding agricultural mechs, vehicles and infantry in order to make up for the lack actual BattleMechs... while the major factions of the MW galaxies continued to not be able to settle differences without waging war.

Your poll questions are kinda hard to answer directly... Battletech worlds had varying levels of wealth and available technology, but on the whole still have more tech than we do... outside of the house armies and the more wealthy sub factions, the average person live mostly as peasants governed by feudalism. Of the original 5 major houses, the Lyran Commonwealth was known as the richest, with the Federated Suns and Draconis Combine right behind them with military wealth, the Free Worlds League and Cappelans were underdogs in the 3rd succession war. Life in the clans outside of the Inner Sphere was more technologically advanced, but was still far from being a "Utopia" of any sort.

The best reading to answer your question or questions are the Successor House source books for the original Mechwarrior RPG if you can actually get your hands on them... they detail each houses history within the Star League and the Succession wars that followed, as well as detail the political, social and economic structures and philosophies of each house as well as the sub factions within. On the whole, and over the entire timeline of MW history, none of the factions are in fact "The Good Guys"- all of them have their claims of wanting to restore the galaxy to what the Star League once was...but only if they get to be the "Top Dog" in the end, none of them have the military might to claim the galaxy by themselves, nor the diplomatic tact to unify the various other factions (or even sub factions within their own realm), and all of them have had their hand in being part of the never ending galactic civil war at some point or another in their histories. (Most factions have also been guilty of humanitarian crimes against their own people at some point or another while trying to maintain the wars against their outside enemies.)

Edited by Pygar, 01 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Caine Hazen]

Coming from a cyberpunk background I'm gonna say, no... big no. The govts don't have the pervasive "big brother" feel, nor are they shunted aside by the Corps. Most regular folks have happy quiet lives until their planets become the focus of wars. The closest I think you get is during the Clan invasion in the conqured areas. Even all the novels I've read don't seem to get to dystopic... its big mechs kickin the **** out of things, the rest is just background fluff

[Monky]

It is if you consider our own world dystopian.

[Sug]

All things being equal the battlemechs make it automatically better than today.

[Insidious Johnson]

meh, I used the standard of civil liberties to determine better or worse. That being the case Today>FWL>IS>Clan.

[Kenyon Burguess]

so many wars and backwoods planets. i get the opinion that its about as awful as it is currently here. the cluster is worse tho. its described as being very hard out there even with their advanced technologies. i voted for Marik for the time frame of the game. it has a better illusion of freedom than the other IS houses atm and wasnt as nearly invovled in the 4th war as the fedcom, combine, Laio fronts

[Ramien]

I would say no, unless you include most of the history of Europe as a dystopia. Until the arrival of the clans, power is divided amongst several ruling families that fight amongst each other, causing the borders to shift slightly but not too much, while smaller nations appear and run the risk of getting absorbed by a larger polity. You've got an ancient religion that has faded in prominence but still controls a small central region while also maintaining some influence in most of the nations.

Unless people are in one of the stricter nations in terms of control or are living on a planet currently involved in a skirmish, what fluff I've read seems to put the quality of life at roughly what we're seeing now.

[errorabbit]

Sug, on 01 May 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

All things being equal the battlemechs make it automatically better than today.

Because having giant war machines that cost billions while not even being that effective in war is better how...?
It's cooler I guess.

caine hazen, on 01 May 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Coming from a cyberpunk background I'm gonna say, no... big no. The govts don't have the pervasive "big brother" feel, nor are they shunted aside by the Corps. Most regular folks have happy quiet lives until their planets become the focus of wars. The closest I think you get is during the Clan invasion in the conqured areas. Even all the novels I've read don't seem to get to dystopic... its big mechs kickin the **** out of things, the rest is just background fluff

Well, Capella HAS the pervasive big brother attitude. Actually, Hanse Davion was pretty liberal with setting agents on his "closest friends" that pretended to be their lovers too, not very nice. Kurita has the ISA. The Lyran's secret service Loki is so terifying they secretly founded a second secret organisation for when it gets out of hand, Heimdall.
And then, the most important fact: ALL factions except FRR are absolutist monarchies! They're dictatorships, but with fancy ornaments, that get succeeded by the sons. Just because some of them are doing a good job doesn't make the system less horrible... and then there's the clans who are restricted by their weird honor, their brutal caste segregation and various other uncomfortable things.

No, the setting is very dystopian.
Just because it isn't hitting you over the head with it and has it to such a large amount that it becomes hard to believe anything would even work, like in WH40k, doesn't mean it is not.

In comparison to Cyberpunk, it's pretty clear in the Dystopian range. It even has galaxy spanning corporations that control a lot of the aspects of your life if you work for them. And they're also controlled by the Houses.

And last but not least: There's nearly constant war! Even though apparently people take their Ares Convention seriously, civilians will get hurt and die, and even if not, production facilities will get destroyed and claimed and there's frequent talk of riots and small rebellions everywhere. They are mentioned offhand and are quickly "quenched" usually...
I can't imagine that doesn't involve fighting, and very likely deaths. So you've got a lot of people so ill at ease with the government that they risk death to revolt.

[Sug]

Sug, on 01 May 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

All things being equal the battlemechs make it automatically better than today.

errorabbit, on 01 May 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

It's cooler I guess.

Pretty much.