73 replies to this topic

[Taizan]

Fugu, on 20 November 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

That I have never seen. The only time we killed Trialmechs with extreme pejudice was when LRMs were really strong and everybody and their mother played that Awesome with 2xLRM15. They hurt badly but went down rather fast.
Now, the ussual guys are prime target: Gausscat, Streakcats and Atlas.

Oh I mean on your own team. Things like "**** if ur not a founder" when someone brings the "Stick together, stay in cover" mantra when playing a non [F] or trial mech.
Maybe I was overdoing it with stating its "frequent" but in 1 / 20 matches something in this way happens in team chat. Maybe its just venting the built up frustration from founders that the game isn't progressing as they had hoped, which I can understand.

[Harmatia]

I have absolutely no problem with PUG's, I do it all the time. However when 4 or more of my friends are on, we want to play together. And we're being told we cannot because of garbage decisions and lazy matchmaking. I call it lazy because this crap should have been ironed out a long time ago, not in stages after the game has gone "live"... "beta" or not.

No wonder Canadians often sellout. Great ideas, lack of proper work ethic and the lack of desire to see something through. This coming from one extremely tired northern *******. And BC is the worst of it all, completely rude and arrogant. It breaks my heart to see what has happened to the place I grew up in.

Edited by Harmatia, 20 November 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Some very fair points being made here, some a little less so, but here's my next insight:
I was just playing for a bit more since I started the thread, and I found a few premades (on my team) over the time I was playing and you know what I did? I inquired as to their plans, listened to what they had to say and was a productive member of the team.

Taizan, on 20 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

1) There is no communication because its 7 strangers and you.
3) New players have no idea what they are doing, thus weakening the team
4) AFK / self-implode / botting / 4FPS etc.
5) Frequent encounter of "holier-than-thou" attitude from founders vs. freeplayers / trial mechs players

1) There's a keyboard for a reason. It's not the most effective but it's better than nothing
3) Who says they're new?
4) I see your point there, but sometimes I'm sure someone in your premade group could CTD
5) Never seen that. Ever.

H8Bitter, on 20 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Pesronally I dont like pugs beacuse they often ( keyword is OFTEN ) provide little to no challenge for team of veterans, who lets face it are in premades more often than not, its no fun having easy wins, I'd rather loose a match by a few mechs than win a match by stomping Pugs.

When i do pug, I'm slightly annoyed by the often ( see previous segment... ) lack of teamwork.

Thats my gripe with Pugs nothing else...

Fair reasoning.

SgtMaster, on 20 November 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Well, i believe in freedom of choice.

the fact that some disconnect does not bother me, i have the black-screen bug one in 10 games, i used to disconnect also...


It is nothing personal, but ;

• 2/3 drops, a new player wants to test his weapons on me at the beginning of the match, often legging me...
  
• 1/3 drops, i have a teamkiller on my team, so when we defend ourselves we get a teamkill penalty...
  
• 1/3 drops, when using chat to relay information, there is always this one guy giving out our location and plan over "all" chat...

Whoa, you must be exaggerating. Or the unluckiest man ever. I have never seen crap like that since day 1 of open beta.

Team Leader, on 20 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

I don't have anything against pugs, I just dislike that I cant have a full team and play against other full teams with it. In a team based game, team tactics should be promoted, not pushed to the side as being "OMG op PREMADE!". That's kinda the point of the game and some Puggers want to take that away form the devoted playerbase. Nothing against pugs in general, but its whiny pugs who refuse to respect how others want to play, or are mad that they are better at it than them, that tick me off. Its individuals who try and speak for a crowd that make puggers look whiny and dumb. If a pugger is willing to listen, communicate, and is a competent player who doesn't DC in their trial mech straight off, then they're good with me.

Ah, yes, those guys. I would like to apologise on behalf of all puggers who are not like that. We do not wish to be associated with them. Now, I'm all for the separation system, not because I think premades are "OH-PEE" or whatever, but because the bickering is giving me migraines. Guaranteed coordinated opposition is also nice.

CocoaJin, on 20 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

As if we are insisting

Niether side has a choice at this time, so why have contempt for the noobs? Why not make the best of it and be a positive force in the situtation instead of eroding your own player base? Or are you so short sighted and obsessed with self-gratification that you cant see the folly of your contemptious behavior against your own fledgling playing community.

Good luck with your beloved MWO when you cant field more than a couple of thousand players at a time because new-comers keep getting ran off by self serving PMs griefing noobs, instead of being community builders.

Brilliant!

Hear hear!

Right this post has taken me ages to wright and proof-reading in the little box at the bottom of the page is too small to see anything in. May be edits coming.
*the grammatical errors were in the statement announcing the editing, lol

Edited by Lt XKalibur, 20 November 2012 - 08:18 PM.

[Streeter]

Secundus, on 20 November 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

What's frustrating about that situation for you? Is it that there's no chance to win or that you're not socializing with your clan mates?

both, I prefer a good fight not a steam roll either way. Its a team game and when players are not only completely ramboing it but arent even there at all it does not make for a fun game.


do you have fun when you load into a game and half your players AFK or sit there farming with a non repaired mech? or better yet the odd team killer?

I dont think its a hard concept to grasp, being forced to play with pugs pretty much forces the team player to be teamed with that, this is what all the "snobby LEET" voice com guys are complaining about.

[BigJim]

Weeble, on 20 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

There have been far too many comments on these forums about the joys of pug stomping and "pug farming" for Cbills and XP. That might not be how you feel but it seems to pretty common.

I would put it to you that that is simple trolling - Finding people that get wildly upset about something that is too insignificant to get upset over, and rubbing it in, in order to hihglight the foolishness of being upset in the first place.

When you see comments like "I bathe in your pubbie tears", you know what I mean.
Personally I'm far too convivial to engage in such shenanigans, but I've seen it - Very rarely.
I don't really know where you're seeing all these masses of comments though, tbh.


As an aside - Any team who thinks it makes them good that they can roll pugs is laughed at by all other teams.

Edited by BigJim, 20 November 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Javin, on 20 November 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I would like the maps to also randomize or give the ability to pick drop size. different drop size maps 4-16 players would let premades have more fun in large groups. I would also like a PUG only drop zone so pre mades could play vs premades. Those that pug could play against themselves.

Isn't this what phase 2 will be implementing (albeit without the group-size selection)?

[Weeble]

Thinking about what guys are saying and yes, as the player base has increased, the frustrations of pugging have seriously increased.

New players usually pick whatever Assault trial mech is available because it's the best, right?. Then they shoot at buildings, alpha teammates, or just stand there wondering what's going on while their team loses. After they play awhile, they can be sorted into A) dumb a$$e$ that just aren't good, AFK or suicide farmers ('cause they're gonna be good after they buy their own mech, right?), or C) decent players that want team work and will usually go along with a plan.

The majority of puggers are in group C but playing with groups A and B is really painful.

[Taizan]

Lt XKalibur, on 20 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

1) There's a keyboard for a reason. It's not the most effective but it's better than nothing
3) Who says they're new?
4) I see your point there, but sometimes I'm sure someone in your premade group could CTD
5) Never seen that. Ever.

Yes there is a keyboard, nevertheless, most pug rounds I encountered on are very silent, maybe the occasional "Hello" and thats it. Sometimes there is much more and better communication, but then the PUG team also wins. The question was what is wrong with them.
The new players themselves say they are new or helplessly walk into buildings because they don't know about the torso turning. Seen it too often.
About 5 - I've already corrected that, I didn't mean frequent - more "once in a while". Already edited it, EN isn't my main language. Unfortunately it does occur and isn't helping the cause.

Before anyone further thinks I want to stigmatize founders or sth. like that: Generally I have good experience discussing / talking with most founders and we are all in the same boat (mostly). So its not a general stigma or something, please don't take this the wrong way.

[Clay Pigeon]

They have squishy noses, and are inbred.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Taizan, on 20 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Yes there is a keyboard, nevertheless, most pug rounds I encountered on are very silent, maybe the occasional "Hello" and thats it. Sometimes there is much more and better communication, but then the PUG team also wins. The question was what is wrong with them.
The new players themselves say they are new or helplessly walk into buildings because they don't know about the torso turning. Seen it too often.
About 5 - I've already corrected that, I didn't mean frequent - more "once in a while". Already edited it, EN isn't my main language. Unfortunately it does occur and isn't helping the cause.

Before anyone further thinks I want to stigmatize founders or sth. like that: Generally I have good experience discussing / talking with most founders and we are all in the same boat (mostly). So its not a general stigma or something, please don't take this the wrong way.

About point 5, I apologise, I had not noticed the edit. I hope no one else makes that mistake.
When it comes to communication, I find it helps to constantly instigate the communication yourself. At least if you are constantly giving advice or calling locations of enemy units those who aren't typing responses can still see that info and use it
I don't mean to sound demeaning there, but having typed it up it looks a little demeaning... sorry

Clay Pigeon, on 20 November 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

They have squishy noses, and are inbred.

This I shall not stand for sir! My nose is quite robust! (excluding my Cataphract's one)
Plus you offend my heritage sir! I demand satisfaction! Autocannons at dawn!

[Secundus]

Streeter, on 20 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

both, I prefer a good fight not a steam roll either way. Its a team game and when players are not only completely ramboing it but arent even there at all it does not make for a fun game.


do you have fun when you load into a game and half your players AFK or sit there farming with a non repaired mech? or better yet the odd team killer?

I dont think its a hard concept to grasp, being forced to play with pugs pretty much forces the team player to be teamed with that, this is what all the "snobby LEET" voice com guys are complaining about.

I have only ever pugged and I have never played a game where more than one of my teammates AFKs or team kills. I have had great success since the Phase 1 patch with entering basic strategies into chat, and providing tips to new players (i.e. don't run into the crater and overheat, stay grouped, peak over the ridge don't charge in, etc.). The odd time my team will have a 4 man group who will join in the strategy only making us stronger. This seems to net me a win roughly have the time. I do not plan on joining clans or other player groups at any point in the future. I've been there, done that, and there's too much drama with people that take the games way too seriously. When the game is ready I'll invite some friends to join and do small group drops, but until then I'm playing solo and casually. Until then I'm trying to make the best of this game and community despite my sincere doubts that it will last. The fact that many of the so-called "core player" group seem unwilling to play and assist the new players and instead refer to them in a negative light I can only imagine will serve only to expedite the fading away of this game.

Edited by Secundus, 20 November 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[IIIuminaughty]

"What's wrong with PUGs?"
Answer: They suck and me stomping all over them doesn't make them better apparantly.

[The Silent Protagonist]

StrataDragoon, on 20 November 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

"What's wrong with PUGs?"
Answer: They suck and me stomping all over them doesn't make them better apparantly.

Constructive criticism always helps. Shove it down their throats and hey, maybe some of them will listen. I know I do.
Anyway, I just said I liked you in another thread! I may redact that statement now *hissy fit*

[IIIuminaughty]

Lt XKalibur, on 20 November 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Constructive criticism always helps. Shove it down their throats and hey, maybe some of them will listen. I know I do.
Anyway, I just said I liked you in another thread! I may redact that statement now *hissy fit*

Its ok man you still my favorite on this game!

[Streeter]

Secundus, on 20 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I have only ever pugged and I have never played a game where more than one of my teammates AFKs or team kills. I have had great success since the Phase 1 patch with entering basic strategies into chat, and providing tips to new players (i.e. don't run into the crater and overheat, stay grouped, peak over the ridge don't charge in, etc.). The odd time my team will have a 4 man group who will join in the strategy only making us stronger. This seems to net me a win roughly have the time. I do not plan on joining clans or other player groups at any point in the future. I've been there, done that, and there's too much drama with people that take the games way too seriously. When the game is ready I'll invite some friends to join and do small group drops, but until then I'm playing solo and casually. Until then I'm trying to make the best of this game and community despite my sincere doubts that it will last. The fact that many of the so-called "core player" group seem unwilling to play and assist the new players and instead refer to them in a negative light I can only imagine will serve only to expedite the fading away of this game.

I want your pug team mates

please note that I did not say all Pugs = AFK, Farmers... at the same time I get atleast 1 of them EVERY match, so perhaps Im just crazy unlucky

edit: btw not saying you have to do teams, just saying it would be nice if the team players could do teams :-/

Edited by Streeter, 20 November 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[The Silent Protagonist]

StrataDragoon, on 20 November 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Its ok man you still my favorite on this game!

*warm feelings*

Streeter, on 20 November 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

I want your pug team mates

please note that I did not say all Pugs = AFK, Farmers... at the same time I get atleast 1 of them EVERY match, so perhaps Im just crazy unlucky

edit: btw not saying you have to do teams, just saying it would be nice if the team players could do teams :-/

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I'm sure it's already been suggested but VoIP would really improve this game... It may even be worth the risk of creating our own version of CoD kiddies from whiny people on this forum! (I can hear them now, "Come check my 1337 Gausscat skillz bro!" says xXxSn1P3R3Lit3xXX... *shudder*) I would also like a team vs team matchmaking system for those times when I wish to participate in team play like that.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Anyways, gotta go, will check on thread tomorrow

[Zolaz]

Lt XKalibur, on 20 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Please, tell me why pugging is so vilified! And fellow puggers, aid me in defending our right to drop without prejudice!

Because PUGs do things like shoot you in the back while you are fighting. Just be happy they didnt do it at your cap because they were "testing weapons". They are doing their best, bless their hearts, as they run into buildings. The run awesome builds like the LRM Jenner. They run headlong into a group of 4 enemy and get smoked like crack at Bobby Brown's house. They watch a team shooting the Atlas and then get distracted by the Squirrel and go off chasing it in their Awesome. They fight in the caldera and over heat. They run out of bounds. They do all these things and then act surprised when someone says something. Or better yet they curse you out.

In my experience most PUGs are ignorant. Meaning they dont have a clue and dont want to be educated.

Edited by Zolaz, 20 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Crazycajun]

Secundus, on 20 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

People want to win, and joining a team makes winning easier the way the matchmaker currently works. The game for them is only fun if they're winning, which says a lot about them. When 8 v 8 is implemented and the easy wins are gone for most people, I have no doubt many folks that form teams with strangers on Team Speak will return to pugging so they're not matched up against well coordinated and equipped clans and can enjoy a level of personal glory on the battlefield fighting with and against random individuals.

yes because god forbid we use coordination and teamwork in a team based game ...

i mean really..that just to freaking mainstream for you lonewolf puggers now is it

[Wraith05]

Well first to clear up your confusion on the TS servers. The way it works is you download teamspeak3 for free. And then log in with the information provided in a post in this forum. After that you go to the looking for group channel on it. Then wait a few moments till someone comes up and goes "need 2 more in dropship 5". You then go to dropship 5, friend the leader. And they invite you to an ingame group. you then proceed to call out targets/give commands/respond to calls for help etc....

Now as for why a lot of us have issues with getting puggers on our team is that we form premades to work as a group and everyone in the group has that mindset. So with a full 8 group you are playing with 7 other people who will definatly listen/coordinate. If you lose you know it was because you were beat, not because you lost the pug lottery.

By this I mean that when you have to play with 4 pugs you can give commands/try to organize till the cows come home but if they don't want to listen they won't.This detracts from a lot of our experience because we are now losing not because we got beat necessarily, but because the 4 random people we got stuck with refused to listen.

Of course this isn't always the case and I am happy to play with pugs that cooperate. I'll even type the commands out in chat as I get them from my commander in the middle of battle for them.

Also some premades hold the fact that we can't form full 8 man groups because pugs cried when they were getting beat over and over by premade and organized teams.