17 replies to this topic

[Nik Reaper]

In the lore it is possible to use laser guidance for accurate missile fire,
that is painting a target with a laser designator broadcasting to allies and keeping it on the target from launch to hit.
This was done by the DEST commandos during the Smoke Jaguar counter invasion (they used a hand held device) and by the Jade Falcon Khan when he killed Ikhan Ulric (used a normal small laser with a lowered output).

So the question is should we be able to use one of those lovely buttons in our cockpit to change the output of one of our lasers to act as an missile designator?

There are some obvious cons and prows, but I'll say them anyway. Namely while using a laser in this mode, well you are using a laser with it's max range limit to paint a targer rather than do damage, and you have to keep the beam on the target from launch to hit , as to what happens if you lose the target from you'r beam, it should be discussed, but the pro is that you dont need extra weight and a weapon hardpoint slot to get some extra missile precision for you'r self and probly all missiles fired at the target..
I don't have yet a clear picture as to haw it should work, that is if some one is painting a target that means that any missile fired without lock auto targets the painted target, or the locking proces becomes very short but the missiles continue to fly in the last vector designated by the laser, so you could have a choice weather to use the quick lock or keep on target till you get a regular lock if you don't trust the painter.

[Hannes]

Not a good idea.
This will 1. make the tag laser useless and 2. makes scouts less powerful

+ the abuse possibility is high.
Imagine some ..... using the laser to mark a rock so all your missiles go weeee into the rock

Edit:
Target Acquisition Gear is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles

Edited by Hannes, 26 April 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

And here I will say something I never did before:.... But it's cannon! that is to say, the tag laser does seems to be redundant, why did they make it?

Edit:
Ok after a bit of digging it seems that tag as a system is lostech till 3033, but the clans have it... so basicly every clan laser equiped mech has an option of using a tag mode laser.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 26 April 2012 - 03:44 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Been discussing that very fact in the NARC thread. My view is with a 450m range its too dangerous for scouts and would probably only be useable by brawlers that have the armour and would be using lasers for damage as well.

[Thom Frankfurt]

Damn. You guys beat me to it...

Target Acquisition Gear is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles. The system was first introduced by the Terran Hegemony in 2600, but it became Lostech during the Succession Wars until it was recovered by the Federated Suns in 3033.^[1] TAG is compatible with systems such as Arrow IV Homing Missiles or Semi-Guided LRM munitions.

I <3 Arrow IV Homing Missiles!!!

[Nik Reaper]

Too bad that we'll have to wait till the clans for such a fun option, I would personaly love to use a large laser in pasive sensor mode painting an unaware target while crouching in a bush somewhere.

Edit:
Though not strictly on topic I would also love if the game had ingame vouce comunication so that information warfare could use sigal jamming and scramble voice comunication so that at grater distances you could use another cannon laser mode that is used to tightbeam communicate.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 26 April 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Nik Reaper, on 26 April 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

Too bad that we'll have to wait till the clans for such a fun option, I would personaly love to use a large laser in pasive sensor mode painting an unaware target while crouching in a bush somewhere.

We'd probably have to wait much longer, as semi-guided LRMs are availabe in 3057. And we have no word (besides the "story text") if Arrow IV systems will be available.

[Gigaton]

Thorn Hallis, on 26 April 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

We'd probably have to wait much longer, as semi-guided LRMs are availabe in 3057.

I seriously doubt the game will feature specialist munitions like that in the first place. You brought a NARC into battle? Great, all your team's LRM boats are using Artemis IV and use their own Artemis IV compatible missiles that don't work with NARC. And so on. It wouldn't really encourage missile related teamplay, not outside merc crops at least.

We'll probably just have single type of LRM that works with all the gizmos.

Edited by Gigaton, 26 April 2012 - 04:56 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

In my opinion, needing something other than just NARC is redundant. NARC doesn't need to be in laser form, it's a missile. People just want to reduce the chance of missing their target since lasers travel so much faster.

One of the reasons the NARC has relatively short range is to ensure you can't sit from far back and NARC something and then just have the team pour missiles onto it. A scout has to risk getting close to the enemy and then dumbfiring the NARC and confirming the beacon is good. That system seems sufficient in and of itself.

[Nik Reaper]

As far as I can tell form the novels Lrm's seem to be able to losk on a laser beam, but that could be because the target was stationary, still, point is I would like some complexety in the gameplay, as it is a simulation just move in x direction and fire weapon 1..10 seems a bit lacking , considering all the nice things we know you could and should do while piloting. And even if not used regulary it's always nice to know that the option is there.

[BarHaid]

TAG is a very different tactic than NARC. Yes you have to get closer to your target to hit it with a NARC beacon, but then you can run and hide. With TAG, you have to keep the laser on your target, or else your missiles don't have anything to home in on. You get to be farther away, but you have to be constantly visible to the enemy.

Something to consider....

[Paladin1]

Listen, there's a reason why there's NARC beacons as well as TAG, Artemis IV and Streak SRMs. Each has it's own place in the order of things and while some may overlap, each does something that none of the others can do.

NARC allows you to call in massed indirect fire.
TAG allows you to call in Arrow IV artillery fire.
Artemis IV allows you to mass your direct fire missiles on target.
Streak SRMs allows you to not waste your shots and your damage with misses.

[Solis Obscuri]

TAG already does this for semi-guided LRMs, though as mentioned above, it requires continual target-painting, whereas a Narc beacon does not.

[UncleKulikov]

No, it would hamper gameplay by destroying much of the utility that the scout mechs have. Since this game is built on role warfare, this would homogenize any mech with a laser weapon and infringe upon the scout's role as spotter.

Canon comes secondary to gameplay. ALWAYS.

[Monky]

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't use an actual 'laser' aka small med large laser, it has its own low output infrared laser (we are capable of this today with a man portable laser designation system).

It would just be a specialist piece of equipment that works like a continuous laser that deals no damage but allows a lock on without line of sight for any friendly weapon systems, or possibly for designating an out of map Arrow IV strike if the commander wants.

[BarHaid]

Nik Reaper, on 26 April 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

In the lore it is possible to use laser guidance for accurate missile fire,
<snip>
and by the Jade Falcon Khan when he killed Ikhan Ulric (used a normal small laser with a lowered output).

Whoever wrote that scene should have their editor horsewhipped. That kind of balderdash is what leads to Variable-Speed Lasers; which are an extremely weak excuse for more weapon variety.

[KageRyuu]

Thorn Hallis, on 26 April 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

We'd probably have to wait much longer, as semi-guided LRMs are availabe in 3057. And we have no word (besides the "story text") if Arrow IV systems will be available.

Hopefully not, Arrow IVs have quite virtually ruined MWLL.

Edited by KageRyuu, 26 April 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[focuspark]

Battletech history hurts my head. The equivalent of TAG exists today and is used extensively by US (and allied) armed forces for guiding munitions to their target. The concept of a NARC beacon is a little silly but they exists today (in the real world) as anti-radar missiles... basically they home in on the active radar signal sent out by bases, planes, tanks, etc which are using radar to improve their visibility. The equivalent of Artemis exists today as well... hell guide by wire missiles have been in used since the Vietnam war and the guidance systems hardly weight 3 tons. Despite having massive, walking, battlemechs the militaries of the Battletech universe would lose to today's modern military handedly... even with their lasers.