34 replies to this topic

[Grabes]

Ugh.

No one got the ******* point.

Within this game the convergance of ballists is w0nky as all all hell.

I've watched my shells go up at a sharp left shooting right over enemy mechs when cross hair is center mass.

That's the problem.

[Jadel Blade]

Jason1138, on 25 November 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

PPCs dont converge worth a crap, if you count them as lasers

Why would you?

I don't think they should fix ballistics I think they should nerf lasers. There should be some sort of spread. making them subject to Convergence rules might be enough otherwise just have them scatter slightly.

Bear in mind I almost exclusively use multiple laser arrays so i want to nerf myself. its more in tunes with canon that way and evens up the ballistics and lasers in terms of usefullness.

[nitra]

MoonUnitBeta, on 21 November 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Why does it matter CocoaJin? They're two completely different weapon types.
Not trying to sound mean, just honestly don't know what the problem is between lasers and ballistics.

Because of this BS

4 seconds in

[Kalthios]

Because this sim doesn't have enough control yet. Need an option to toggle between cursor range convergence and target range convergence.

While brawling, ballistics are constantly gimbling around to new convergence distance making it a nightmare to shoot a target.

For example, say I am in a phract-4X with two arm mounted AC-10s and am brawling. I have to lead the target, even at 60m to hit. Problem is the target is going in and out of my crosshairs and the terrain is shifting: My range from my crosshair rangefinder is fluctuating from 60m out to 1000m. This causes the convergence to constantly be changing. At one split second my convergence on the target is pinpoint, the next it is as wide as my cataphract. In effect I am trying to aim some guns that keep wobbling in and out throughout the brawl, causing shots to go wide to the side or even in front of the target.

Lasers do not suffer from this because they do not need to lead targets.

Edited by Kalthios, 25 November 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[nitra]

Kalthios, on 25 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Because this "sim" doesn't have enough control. Need an option to toggle between cursor range convergence and target range convergence.

While brawling, ballistics are constantly gimbling around to new convergence distance making it a nightmare to shoot a target.

This is what R should be for . if your target is highlighted then your weapons should converge at that targets distance .

[Leetskeet]

Grayzzur, on 21 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy

NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE

[Kalthios]

No nitra, less automation, more options. There are situations where you will want to use the crosshair rangefinder for convergence.

I wish I could set the convergence manually as well. Negative convergence would be great for torso twisting, but no, developers have to keep it simple for all of you average people. There isn't even a torso left and right keybind making free-look, aiming with just the arms, next to worthless. Free-look should also be able to be a toggle.

Who knows, maybe the devs will increase the depth of the gameplay someday, but the only talk of actual gameplay changes I have heard from them is the inclusion of 3D person, the rest is all metagame.

Edited by Kalthios, 25 November 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[nitra]

I fail to see that it has to be a lot more complicated than that . however if people want some more complexity then fine .

I however would like for my weapons to converge on the distance in accordance to what mech you have targeted.

if you want to use the scroll wheel or the + - keys to adjust convergence by meter thats fine by me ... but i personally, dont want to have to keep manually adjusting convergence through out, and per skirmish.

Kalthios, on 25 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

No nitra, less automation, more options. There are situations where you will want to use the crosshair rangefinder for convergence.

I wish I could set the convergence manually as well. Negative convergence would be great for torso twisting, but no, developers have to keep it simple for all of you average people. There isn't even a torso left and right keybind making free-look, aiming with just the arms, next to worthless. Free-look should also be able to be a toggle.

Who knows, maybe the devs will increase the depth of the gameplay someday, but the only talk of actual gameplay changes I have heard from them is the inclusion of 3D person, the rest is all metagame.

Edited by nitra, 25 November 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[shortpainter]

EVERYONE PLEASE READ;

The game has two different ways of handling the communication between the servers for ballistics and lasers. Ballistics send a signal to the game server then it waits for the signal to come back and THEN the weapon fires off its round. Lasers are client based, which means the player and the laser are on the same time scale. Ballistics happen based on the server speed. The reason for this is to prevent aim bots from using ballistics properly. Combine this with the weapon convergence aiming at the terrain instead of the targeted mech and, viola, you get odd ballistic shots sometimes.

Now, to counteract this effect; When aiming with ballistics, do not turn your feet! This action ruins the weapon convergence and the signal to the server. So, when you're about to shoot your autocannon (or PPC) do not touch the "A" or "D" keys. Then after you shoot your round, resume turning your mech. It only disrupts your maneuvering a slight bit but you will land more shells on target.

[HavocReign]

Grayzzur, on 21 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy, so convergence to range is not a big deal. For ballistics, you have to lead the target. Your crosshair isn't on the target, it's on that hill 500m past the target... and the weapons tend to converge at that distance instead of at the range of your target.

This.

[Joseph Mallan]

Speed of Light beams v Ballistic projectiles????

[nitra]

DO NOT CARE.. it is absolutely ridiculous to expect us to accept missed shots based on something that is broken.

I dont care how you frame it, explain it, or justify it . when the mech is tareted the weapons should converge on it .

not criss cross, not shoot through the target's arms, not shoot 50 meters off from what the laser on the same arm is shooting at .

all guns should converge on target or a point of set convergence set manually. tired of people making this so convoluted its not.

and no the server authoritative is not an excuse . they can sync these two systems between the client and server.

its the freaking 21st century, game design is not a some new technology, targeting has worked in games for decades there is no reason it should not in this game.

shortpainter, on 25 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

EVERYONE PLEASE READ;

The game has two different ways of handling the communication between the servers for ballistics and lasers. Ballistics send a signal to the game server then it waits for the signal to come back and THEN the weapon fires off its round. Lasers are client based, which means the player and the laser are on the same time scale. Ballistics happen based on the server speed. The reason for this is to prevent aim bots from using ballistics properly. Combine this with the weapon convergence aiming at the terrain instead of the targeted mech and, viola, you get odd ballistic shots sometimes.

Now, to counteract this effect; When aiming with ballistics, do not turn your feet! This action ruins the weapon convergence and the signal to the server. So, when you're about to shoot your autocannon (or PPC) do not touch the "A" or "D" keys. Then after you shoot your round, resume turning your mech. It only disrupts your maneuvering a slight bit but you will land more shells on target.

[Suicidal Idiot]

Frankly, I'd be happy if the weapon convergence defaulted to max listed range, and only changed between that and target range.

If that's not possible, I request zero convergence.

[CocoaJin]

Kalthios, on 25 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Lasers do not suffer from this because they do not need to lead targets.

But lets be real, we sweep our lasers about all the time as we bring our cross hairs on to targets, so our lasers should be rapidly wobbling between several ranges prior to lining up our target. But our lasers never stray as bad as ballistics once we quickly line up and fire.

Ive tested my laser against multiple ranges. Forest Colony provides many rocks to shoot at across many ranges. Fire at a rock, and then quickly sweep the beam onto different rocks at various ranges, the beam will always hit directly under the cross hair...as if they are instanteously changing convergence. Ballistics can never do that in game.

If I stand with my nose pressed on a building, then quickly torso turn away and fire into the distance, my lasers should be seen crossing each other relativly close in front of me...but they wount...but ballistics will(an issue if lasers arent using focal lenses and are intended to be equally affected by convergence as ballistics).

Edited by CocoaJin, 25 November 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[CocoaJin]

shortpainter, on 25 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

EVERYONE PLEASE READ;

The game has two different ways of handling the communication between the servers for ballistics and lasers. Ballistics send a signal to the game server then it waits for the signal to come back and THEN the weapon fires off its round. Lasers are client based, which means the player and the laser are on the same time scale. Ballistics happen based on the server speed. The reason for this is to prevent aim bots from using ballistics properly. Combine this with the weapon convergence aiming at the terrain instead of the targeted mech and, viola, you get odd ballistic shots sometimes.

Now, to counteract this effect; When aiming with ballistics, do not turn your feet! This action ruins the weapon convergence and the signal to the server. So, when you're about to shoot your autocannon (or PPC) do not touch the "A" or "D" keys. Then after you shoot your round, resume turning your mech. It only disrupts your maneuvering a slight bit but you will land more shells on target.

So thats why Im screwed once I get circle jerked by a Streak Cat or some other fast brawler orbiting me at close range...the server cant properly track my rounds, even though I have the target lined up? That is a garabage model...I never understood why it was felt that lasers didnt need the same server checks as ballistics. Wouldnt an aimbot be able to make just as an effective use of a laser as a ballistic weapon?

Why would the devs put such an uneven burden on the two weapon types?

Edited by CocoaJin, 25 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.