62 replies to this topic

[Inappropriate359]

I'm wondering how MWO plans to balance the two. We already know (from WoT) that an organized team of 3 players among 15 random people have an outsized effect on that team's likelihood of winning. The effect is so strong that Wargaming dropped the idea of 5 person (1/3rd of the team size, which would be equivalent to one lance of a mech company) platoons altogether.

Lore-wise it really doesn't make sense for player teams to be fewer than 4 players (lance sized) among a company (12 mechs). As such, in "pub" matches, we can pretty much expect the good teams to dominate even if they only comprise 1/3rd of the team. It doesn't seem like it would have that big an effect, but in practice the organization of 3+ unified players on comms acting as one is such a huge force multiplier. To give the WoT analogue, a team of 3 strong players driving end tier tanks will average 80-90% win rates during that session (yes, I know this for a certainty, since I do it).

So any ideas on how this will be balanced? Because it would really really suck to be an individual player just logging in for a game or two to find that you're up against teams that have 4, 8, 12 people all from the same clan. At that point, the match is over before it begins and what's the point of that?

Possibly there will be a purely random mode where teams aren't allowed at all and another that will allow teams in 4, 8, 12 person increments and pair them against similar teams? But I think a situation where it simply keeps the teams in parity isn't good enough. That is, say the game pairs 2 lance teams against 2 other lance teams and fills in the rest with random players. At that point, the random players are at the mercy of which team has the better pre-organized lances. Their own ability to influence the match has been reduced to almost nothing.

Any thoughts?

[Jack Corban]

If you can't handle the Heat. Eject!

Edited by Jack Corban, 01 May 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Well, whats the point of House Companies and Mercenary Companies if their aren't teams?

In this instance Random Players or Lone Wolves will be stuck trying to fake it in lances. Trying to stay with the others, wandering from locus point to locus point placed by the Lance Commander in exchange for the xp reward and shooting at anything that reads as an enemy.

Maybe eventually they'll find a lance they fit in with and can regularly play with?

Until then they can just follow along and try to help as best they can.

Or run off like an ***** and die an embarrassing and humiliating death... I mean be a hero...

[Solarflux]

I can imagine that, like in League of Legends, teams that are (partially) premade will be balanced out against other (partially) premade teams. Thus keeping teams even.

[Thorn Hallis]

I'm impossible to balance.

[Sheewa]

Even a 4 man lance cant win if the rest of the team is stupid.
Its MMO. Find your teammates. Even a lonewolf should have a friend...

[pursang]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Even a 4 man lance cant win if the rest of the team is stupid.
Its MMO. Find your teammates. Even a lonewolf should have a friend...

...I don't think you quite realize what the term "lonewolf" means, really.

[Sheewa]

pursang, on 02 May 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

...I don't think you quite realize what the term "lonewolf" means, really.

Completely lone dudes does not last long in this world. Deal with this "imbalance" then. ^

[pursang]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Completely lone dudes does not last long in this world. Deal with this "imbalance" then. ^

Yeah? Well good luck with an abortion of a game if people can't play on their own on their own time.

[Sheewa]

pursang, on 02 May 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Yeah? Well good luck with an abortion of a game if people can't play on their own on their own time.

Spoiler

Are u mad? I didnt say that. But if you're comletely lone wolf, go for it. Well organised lances can do a game while you're alone. It is so in RL, it was always so in any MMO.

[pursang]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Spoiler

Are u mad? I didnt say that. But if you're comletely lone wolf, go for it. Well organised lances can do a game while you're alone. It is so in RL, it was always so in any MMO.

Right, well get back to me when you can carry out an intelligent conversation in English. I'll be here waiting patiently.

[Sheewa]

pursang, on 02 May 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Right, well get back to me when you can carry out an intelligent conversation in English. I'll be here waiting patiently.

Peeps always become talking about speech and langauge mistakes when they are out of arguments.
Well, good luck to you. Keeping it that way =

Spoiler

for you.

[Egomane]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Completely lone dudes does not last long in this world. Deal with this "imbalance" then. ^

<-- will be a lone wolf!
<-- will not join a unit/team/gang/blob/nameitwhateveryouwant!
<-- will not use teamspeak/ventrilo/orwhateverVoIPisusedatthemoment!
<-- is sure to be a valuable addition to any "team", even when running of alone/silent!
<-- will still hand you your bottom on the battlefield!

I learned a long time ago, how I can be usefull without "communication". Communication can make a poor player mediocre, and a mediocre player can be somewhat good. But it can never balance for creativity, skill and experience.
From what I have seen, good communication means rules and a standard set of procedures for the battlefield. It is very hard to change those on the fly. They will work most of the time. But if you engange an enemy who experienced those procedures and who has enough creativity to abuse them, you are in deep trouble. Only very few teams manage to adapt to that. The bigger the team, the less likely it will be able to do so.

That's just my experience, and yours may vary, but unless proven wrong I will stick with it.

[pursang]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

Peeps always become talking about speech and langauge mistakes when they are out of arguments.
Well, good luck to you. Keeping it that way =

Spoiler

for you.

Did you actually just create several ghost accounts just to thumbs up your posts?

Hahahahahaha! How very, very sad. You're lucky I won't report you on this though - just because you make me laugh!

Edited by pursang, 02 May 2012 - 01:39 AM.

[Boneripper]

Premades you face alot in the mmo's I play. It's just so much fun beating them!! If the players know how to fight you can win. Just make sure your not hiding when the shooting starts. Outnumbered is not fun. lol

[Idbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbl]

pursang, on 02 May 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

...I don't think you quite realize what the term "lonewolf" means, really.

This? V

Spoiler

[Inappropriate359]

Sheewa, on 02 May 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Even a 4 man lance cant win if the rest of the team is stupid.
Its MMO. Find your teammates. Even a lonewolf should have a friend...

Well, this is exactly the point. An organized subportion of a team, be it WoT's 1/5th or what I would expect to be 1/3rd in MWO teams absolutely can carry the match even if the rest of the team is terribad. We see it all the time in WoT and BF3. It's a testament to just how much of a force multiplier pre-organized teams are.

Since the vast majority of WoT and BF3 players are unclanned/play solo, it's quite clear that this is a segment of the playerbase that can't be 'ignored' for the sake of clanned teams. Marginalizing this group would be completely pointless within the context of a F2P game anyway; it wouldn't even make sense.

And a lot of commenters seem to be missing the point. Even if you do have your buddies to play with 90% of the time, do you really want to be nothing more than a pinata the other 10% when your teammates aren't logged in? My guess is the answer is no, and that you wouldn't even bother playing until your friends were on and you could be competitive in matches. <--not good game design.

[Ramble]

We can assume that the designers might be taking this into consideration by now for how people group and join matches.

It might be interesting for team play to have an element of 'contract' theme where lone wolves and small 2-3 man groups can advertise skills and stats to be hired by larger groups to round out companys for high end compeditive play.

[MrGray]

Build-in coordination tools can help a lot, you can take as example Project Reality mod for BF2. Game needs chain of command (drop party commander, lance commanders\squads), quick orders system for lance\drop commanders (attack, defense, etc.)

[AlanEsh]

jesus, on 01 May 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

I'm wondering how MWO plans to balance the two. We already know (from WoT) that an organized team of 3 players among 15 random people have an outsized effect on that team's likelihood of winning. The effect is so strong that Wargaming dropped the idea of 5 person (1/3rd of the team size, which would be equivalent to one lance of a mech company) platoons altogether.

The only reasoning I saw from Wargaming regarding platoon size not exceeding 3 was to make it easier for the matchmaker. If one platoon of 5 went with a Maus and four Liechtraktors... well that'd be kind of hard for the MM to deal with.

Of course a team with 3xLances will have a better chance than a team with 12xLoners. PGI just needs to do what Wargaming did, and try to distribute the number of lances equally between teams. But that's it. Under no circumstances should PGI more heavily weight a lance of 4 mechs against 4 loners. Wargaming also tried this and after some time abandoned it.