91 replies to this topic

[Green Mamba]

I used the trial cicada just a bit ago.Can you not even unjam them now...I could neither manual or by waiting unjam them?WTH

[Leetskeet]

Paul Inouye, on 22 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

There's a 25% chance of jamming on the 2nd shot (double tapped). If you wait for cooldown it will never jam. This is the risk and part of the backstory that makes up the UACs.

You're the one that thought of this, weren't you.

It's for the backstory, right? Yeah, that's it. That backstory where they actually equipped their war machnes with a cannon that jammed within 3 shots, if not the first. Yeah. k.

Well, unlike those silly lore people, we have to option to never touch a UAC5 again. And it's glorious. Let me know when you change the PPC to the mech wrecking powerhouse that it was in the backstory.

[Lefty Lucy]

Paul Inouye, on 22 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Jams? Yes.. as it should. There's a 25% chance of jamming on the 2nd shot (double tapped). If you wait for cooldown it will never jam. This is the risk and part of the backstory that makes up the UACs.

Heavier? The weight didn't change.

More Slots? The number of slots hasn't changed.

Lower DPS? To be expected with a jammed weapon no?

Yeah, I agree that on paper the UAC5 is still a more-than-viable gun. They just need to make it so the double shot is something you actually have to try to do, rather than something that automatically happens when you hold the trigger down. Whether or not this would be easier to code as a toggle (a la missile doors) or as a requirement to double click, I'm not sure, but it would really go a long way towards making the weapon more useable.

[Leetskeet]

Paul Inouye, on 22 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Heavier? The weight didn't change.

More Slots? The number of slots hasn't changed.

Lower DPS? To be expected with a jammed weapon no?

You misunderstood this part, by the way

[FerretGR]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 November 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yes but IIRC Ultras only jammed on Snake eye rolls Paul. and That didn't happen 25% of the time, That would be a 1:12 roll 25% is 3:12 That will have us jamming 3 times as often as we should be. Uncool sir.

If you're gonna go all TT, once they jammed they were done in canon. I bet statistically 25% with 3 second recovery is still a heck of a lot better than the permanent jams (odds of snake eyes is actually 1 in 35, FYI).

ETA: sorry, someone beat me to it.

Edited by FerretGR, 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Green Mamba]

I don' know any other weapon other than going back to Matchlocks fire arms that had a 25%failure rate,Even Flintlock Rifles of the 1700's were more dependable than that unless it was raining

[Alexa Steel]

For the same reason, any weapon system is deployed. It has its place and it IS still usefull, I prefer it over an AC10 most of the time.

[Rhent]

Leetskeet, on 22 November 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

You're the one that thought of this, weren't you.

It's for the backstory, right? Yeah, that's it. That backstory where they actually equipped their war machnes with a cannon that jammed within 3 shots, if not the first. Yeah. k.

Well, unlike those silly lore people, we have to option to never touch a UAC5 again. And it's glorious. Let me know when you change the PPC to the mech wrecking powerhouse that it was in the backstory.

There is a lot of fail in your reasoning. The UAC/5 before the jam, could put out more DPS than an AC/20 could at range or point blank, for a weapon that takes up significantly less tonnage, has more shots per ton and three times the range. And that is a just a single UAC/5, now mount 4 of them in a mech.

[Green Mamba]

We have weapons today that fire thousands or rounds and do not jam.I know this is a game but if you need to rebalance you adjust Heat,Range,Firing Cycle speed or Damage till you think it is even field,Don't mess with the mechanics of the weapons

Edited by Green Mamba, 22 November 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Rhent]

Green Mamba, on 22 November 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

We have weapons today that fire thousands or rounds and do not jam.I know this is a game but if you need to rebalance you adjust Heat,Range,Firing Cycle speed or Damage till you think it is even field,Don't mess with the mechanics of the weapons

The KEY BONUS of the UAC/5 is the ability to burst and to do long range damage. The trade off is that the weapon jams. The weapon was doing too much damages in matches and the jam rate was increased. The recycle time on a UAC/5 is significantly faster than an AC/5. Just learn how to do timing and you won't have an issue.

[Leetskeet]

Rhent, on 22 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

There is a lot of fail in your reasoning. The UAC/5 before the jam, could put out more DPS than an AC/20 could at range or point blank, for a weapon that takes up significantly less tonnage, has more shots per ton and three times the range. And that is a just a single UAC/5, now mount 4 of them in a mech.

That's cool and I'm gonna let you finish, but you just responded to a post that you made up in your head.

Not a bit of that was in my post.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

If you have 2+ UAC5 or good secondary weapons. It is a little unreliable, but when it works, it is amazing.

[Green Mamba]

Rhent, on 22 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

The KEY BONUS of the UAC/5 is the ability to burst and to do long range damage. The trade off is that the weapon jams. The weapon was doing too much damages in matches and the jam rate was increased. The recycle time on a UAC/5 is significantly faster than an AC/5. Just learn how to do timing and you won't have an issue.

Problem is Reliability of Ballistic weapons in 1,000 years will be extremely reliable considering Automatic Canons today are allready 99.99 % reliable.I know its a game but there would be better ways of rebalancing as I stated above in post #29

[Megahard]

Why not just use AC2's now? The DPS will be about the same considering the jamming.

[hashinshin]

Rhent, on 22 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

There is a lot of fail in your reasoning. The UAC/5 before the jam, could put out more DPS than an AC/20 could at range or point blank, for a weapon that takes up significantly less tonnage, has more shots per ton and three times the range. And that is a just a single UAC/5, now mount 4 of them in a mech.

Now hit all 4 shots versus hitting 1 single shot.

Ohwait, we never remember that part do we?

I'd take a weapon that did 100 damage with a 30 second reload that generated 30 heat. Hey look, it doess less DPS than anything!

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I'm really glad Paul cleared that up so now I don't have to tell you guys you're all stupid in 5 different threads.

Not all of you, but the OP for certain... whiners get thrown in the same bin.

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 22 November 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[Redoxin]

Green Mamba, on 22 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Problem is Reliability of Ballistic weapons in 1,000 years will be extremely reliable considering Automatic Canons today are allready 99.99 % reliable.I know its a game but there would be better ways of rebalancing as I stated above in post #29

In reality aiming is computer assisted, and weapons are stabilized. Even today, not in 1000 years. So in reality you would not miss a single shot.
In reality, tanks are far better than mechs.
In reality, the whole ablative armor system and the way the anti armor weapons work in Battletech does not make any sense.

A jamming weapon is the last thing you should worry about if you care about realism.

[Demon Spawn]

Mount 2 UAC5s in chain fire and jamming is no longer a problem...now the problem is ammo, because 150 rounds is really not enough...
Now how to nerf LBXs...?

[Laokin]

Green Mamba, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

I don' know any other weapon other than going back to Matchlocks fire arms that had a 25%failure rate,Even Flintlock Rifles of the 1700's were more dependable than that unless it was raining

Flint lock rifles didn't jam silly.

They were loaded manually one lead ball at a time. There was also no shell casing. They packed the barrel with powder using a packing rod. Same thing for matchlock pistols. They were one shot, no casing, just a lead ball. There were multishot flintlocks and matchlocks, but they were also multi barrel. Each barrel only held one shot and each shot had to be manually loaded. The best of the best gunsman of the day took 15 seconds to reload in between shots.

Jamming didn't occur until automatic weapons. Automatic doesn't mean rapid fire, it means automatic loading. Most clip rifles weren't even automatic, they were mostly bolt action, streamlined manual.

Jamming didn't exist until magazines circa WWII.

[Magazines existed since 1780 but not for firearms, but Air Guns. The first rifle to use a clip was the M1 Garand in WWII, and that wasn't a magazine, it was a clip. All the same, I suppose it could jam -- however, the point is, jamming wasn't even a thing until world war 2 with automatic feeding and blow back action chambering.]

TL;DR,

Matchlocks had 100% reliability in terms of not jamming, because they couldn't jam. Jamming is a modern problem that only came into existence some 70 years ago.

It'll also likely to not ever go away without slowing down the fire rate. As you notice, jams occur more frequently the faster the rate of fire, what causes a jam? The force feeding of a new round before the old round has completely ejected. Hence why jamming is really a non-issue on any weapons that do not shoot quickly.

This is the reason the SAW jams so much when fired fully automatic. If you slowed down your fire rate, you would have noticed a drastic reduction in the amount of jams occurring.

This also shouldn't be a thing if the SAW was chain fed since there is no "Ejection" of shell casings, just a pull on the chain. This is why chain guns generally don't jam and also have the highest fire rate of any gun on the planet. The only thing that could put a stop to chaingun fire is running out of bullets or twisting the chain and popping it off it's tracks, in which case, it's not a jam, the chain has just been unseated.

This is virtually a statistic impossibility with real chain guns such as the Vulcan Minigun. It really can only happen to magazine -> chain converted rifles like the SAW. Commonly the chain is sat in a box, if left to hang, there is much less chance of it being unseated at the cost of mobility, since the chain is long enough that it would drag on the ground.


On topic of the Ultra AC/5.
A 25% jam rate isn't unreasonable by any means on faster shooting weapons. This is the point of the Ultra AC/5. It gives you the ability to shoot a second shot rapidly. However; the user has the choice to risk a jam, or use it like a normal AC/5.

Ultimately, an Ultra AC/5 has the potential to shoot front loaded with the power of an AC/10. It pretty much makes the AC/5 obsolete even with a 25% jam rate. Even at a 50%, neigh, a 99% jam rate, it would still be the clear choice over a normal AC/5 since it's the same as an AC/5 under normal fire, with an additional option to shoot twice equaling the power of a single AC/10. The jam can only occur if you choose to shoot that second shot, so you can feasibly merc with an UAC/5 without jamming it once. Meaning the user has total control over whether or not they wish to RISK a jam.

Now if the jam occurred under normal fire, this thread would have a purpose, but as it stands now, the UAC/5 is clearly better than the normal AC/5 and would be even if the jam percentage was 99%, because it would still work just as good as a normal AC/5 with the caveat that it has an EXTRA feature that is used at the discretion of the operator.

In other words, this stupid thread is stupid.

Edited by Laokin, 22 November 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Mavairo]

Further, on 22 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Why would ANYONE use the UAC5?

Jams? Heavier? More slots? Lower overal damage output because of jamming.

Its a weapon for clowns. Im beginnning to wonder if the devs have any sense.

I would use it... if I were Drunk. It's now a weapon that spends 25 percent of it's firing cycle not firing. Now to most people I'm sure that does not seem like much. Until you get one of those or more moments when you need Every Weapon You Have to core that summabitch before he kills you, or your team mates. And you find that is lo and behold jammed because it spent it's uptime getting that Dbag's armor down where the full alpha was gonna pop him. Or remove a limb.

AC5 and AC2 are by far superior now, for any wet work needed.