27 replies to this topic

[mattkachu]

easy fix:
Move damge up 10x to 0.4
reduce ammo cap 10x (to 200)
does 4dmg a second (same as AC/2)

Pros over AC2
Much less weight
no heat
simple targeting/tracers

Cons compared to AC2
Less damage per ton of ammo
Less range (only 90m)
Worst ballistic velocity in game
Very bad accuracy
Only 20 sec of firing per ton of ammo (compared to ac2's 36s/ton)
No screen shaking (low impulse)

At least try something like that and if its too strong, reduce it to 0.3 and so forth till it works

Edited by mattkachu, 22 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Orzorn]

Allowing machine guns to produce 4 DPS would be too much, as their closest relative is the small laser, and that only produces 1 DPS. Both have the same weight and ranges, so it only makes sense for them to be similar in damage output (traditionally, the machine gun did less damage because its lack of heat was considered a great bonus).

Edited by Orzorn, 22 November 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Orzorn, on 22 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Allowing machine guns to produce 4 DPS would be too much, as their closest relative is the small laser, and that only produces 1 DPS. Both have the same weight and ranges, so it only makes sense for them to be similar in damage output (traditionally, the machine gun did less damage because its lack of heat was considered a great bonus).

Quite.

The reason AC2s have so much DPS is because PGI decided a 6ton gun should...Hit like a 6 ton gun, unlike in TT where it was all but worthless, a welcome departure giving the AC2 some actual use in MWO.

[mattkachu]

Orzorn, on 22 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Allowing machine guns to produce 4 DPS would be too much, as their closest relative is the small laser, and that only produces 1 DPS. Both have the same weight and ranges, so it only makes sense for them to be similar in damage output (traditionally, the machine gun did less damage because its lack of heat was considered a great bonus).

Well, it has its own drawbacks. Slas can be fired for more than 20sec/ton. has MUCH more accuracy, better velocity (hitscan), and many, if not all currentmechs, have more laser hardpoints than ballistic (except yen-lo, cataphract 4x, cicada one version).

Factoring that in, i dont think 0.4 is so bad. But the point is, they can just reduce it to a fine medium. They shouldnt be making the weapon have more ammo, they should make it semi-competitive like what they did with the AC/2 (in this case both more ammo and fire rate @ the cost of heat). I propose more damage, @ the expense of ammo.

Those that wish to use this as a primary weapon for a mech will need to load 6+ tons of ammo because MG will spread the damge and miss often. Its very inaccurate. It'll force people not to just hold down the mouse button as well as get into a good firing range to ensure all hits.

Edited by mattkachu, 22 November 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[Orzorn]

Its important to remember, mattkachu, that the Ac/2 wasn't competitive because it did not compete against weapons of the same tonnage. The machine gun should compete with its brother and sister arms, not rise above them.

[mattkachu]

True enough. But weapons arent competitors just because of their damage or DPS. Some weapons are competitve because they have many litttle things going for them and stack a certain way.

sL/ mL may be one of the best weapons in the game because they stack well and are the most common weapon found on mechs. Other weapons have a better dmg/heat ratio while others have dps or dmg/ton.

AC/2 does more dps/ range/velocity than AC5. AC5 weighs 2 more tons. But ac5 is a fine weapon in its own right, with no real competitor available (UAC5 and AC2 aside). They made AC2 competitve by giving it something no other weapon can do. Its gauss supression. Fires fast, shakes the cockpit and does high dps. ER LL doesnt have nearly the same effectiveness, and must be used in almost entirely a different situation.

There's millions of things they can do to balance the MG. They can increase dmg and reduce RoF, keep same dmg and increase RoF, etc. But whatever they do, they want some unique quality about it, just like they did with the AC2

We wont know how increasing the damage will work until they do it, sadly.

Edited by mattkachu, 22 November 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[TehArgz]

Khavi Vetali, on 22 November 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Just tonight.

Every item at the moment has 10 HP, Engines have 15, and Gauss will soon be changed to 3 HP. Eventually all items will have a separately specified HP. This is all noted in the above linked thread.

/thread

[ollo]

Diablobo, on 22 November 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

You seem to misunderstand the crit system.
Not every hit to the internal structure of a mech causes system damage. The internal structure points are an entirely different entity from the critical slot system on the mech and they are resolved and recorded seperately. If a mech loses its internal structure points in a location, it loses every system in the location. If a critical hit is rolled, it is possible that the weapon or whatever is missed and something else is hit instead, like a heatsink. It only takes one critical hit damage point to destroy a system, whether it takes up one slot or ten. The exception is engines and gyros. The engine takes three hits to destroy, and the gyro takes two. The thing is, just because you breach the armor, you don't necessarily destroy the main weapon/s in that location. You have to destroy all internal structure points to guarantee destruction.

Not quite, the items have HP, too, all 10 except engine has 15 i think. look for the other thread, there's additional info on this.