42 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

I agree with the OP. When they did the nerf after the intro of Artemis, I shot off a flight of missiles and was amazed at how slow they were moving. I thought "They look like falling leaves".
It used to be that LRMs could catch at least a little bit of a fast light mech, but now, forget it. You might get 3 out of 15 if you're lucky. They simply outrun them. Even a stock Hunchback or old Centurion can do what only the light mechs used to do: dodge most of the missiles by running at a right angle. The only ones who get most of the rain now are the slow Awesomes and Atlases, and by the time the missiles actually get there, they probably have rounded a corner or broken LOS.
They need a little more speed. Maybe not double, but something to make them fly like missiles and not snowflakes.

[Fugu]

I liked LRMs best the patch before Artemis came.
The path they take now is really awful. While one should be able to hide behind cover they now tend to slam in the slightest bump.
It used to be that at very long distances they came in at at angle waaaay steeper than now. I think that was appropriate as they take forever to get there and you were still wasting loads of ammo due to the lock disappearing.
Damage now is fine, speed is fine. I could also live good with less damage but please at least make them hit stuff again.

Frozen City always used to be tough for LRM boats, now it's just ridiculous.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sug, on 22 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

TLDR - Increase the speed at which LRMs travel and increase the cooldown of the weapon to compensate.


I use my founder's Catapult almost exclusively. 90% of the time I play it as an LRM boat. Been playing for months now so I've seen most of the LRM adjustments they've implemented to try to balance them.

Something that's always bothered me was how "floaty" LRMs feel. They just sorta hang in the air too long for my tastes. It makes targeting anything but an unaware stationary target over 400m hard to hit. Especially now with the incoming missile warning people get as soon as you launch.

Now I'm not saying LRMs are useless or calling for a massive buff like when artemis first appeared (that was ridiculous). I'm glad that people can actually duck and cover now so they don't get splashed by LRMs as soon as they poke out their heads.

I was bored tonight so i tried to find out how fast LRMs and SRMs go. Basically I aimed at a patch of dirt roughly 1000m away (1003m) and timed how long it took from launch to impact and then did some math. For SRMs target was 270m away.

10 trials each.

LRMs took 10 sec to impact the target.
SRMs took 0.80 sec to impact the target. Lowered distance to 150m = 0.5 sec to impact


1000/10 = 100m per sec = 360kph
150m*2 = 300m 0.5sec*2 = 1 sec yadda yadda 300m in 1 sec = 1080kph

Speed of LRMs = 360kph
Speed of SRMs = 1080

A pretty big difference.

At max range for LRMs 10 sec is a long, LONG, time for someone to react and duck. With the change to the angle of the flight path of LRMs this makes it very difficult to hit a target at long range.

I'm thinking increase the speed of LRMs to about 720kph. Double speed. This will let them impact at max range in 5 sec. It might be necessary to increase the cd of LRM weapons by a second, maybe two to compensate the for the new speed.

mattkachu, on 22 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Very noticeable for people so far back, they're in a different time zone. Prolly not so much if you're 300m away.

I think this is intentional to use LRMs as a support with other weapons to slowly draw closer to an enemy and finish it off. At ~400 i think it feels about right. It gives people enough time to start to dodge for cover, but if they are in the open, they'll get hit

I kinda agree with both of you. I would like my missiles to fly a "bit" faster to target, but I don't want them instant teleport fast. As to LRMs being "Support" weapons. Support does not mean WEAK. Artillery is a support weapon and it can and does change the course of a battle. SO please don't get the two confused for the same thing. Remember a Long Tom will do 20 points of damage to an area of effect not just one Mech. That is a Support Weapon.

[8RoundsRapid]

I like the current implementation of LRMs.

That being said, I think a slight bump to LRM speed wouldnt hurt any. Slight.

[Sug]

8RoundsRapid, on 23 November 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

I like the current implementation of LRMs.

That being said, I think a slight bump to LRM speed wouldnt hurt any. Slight.

Just a minor adjustment to compensate for the instant warning a target gets.

Also, flight paths are just... awful. I'm playing right now on Forest Colony. Just fired 2 LRM15s at an Atlas that i could just see over the top of a small hill enough to get a lock....

The LRMs plowed right into the hill. It's almost like the center of the "mass" of the LRMs is trying to hit the CT of a mech.

[LaserAngel]

I think we can all agree that we are nostalgic for the pre-Artemis patch LRMs. They're not 2.0 damage anymore but I can live with that.

[Woopass]

I have been using LRM's about 90% of the time I have played this game. I have been playing since Close beta invite #2. And have noticed a big decrease in their speed. I think they need to be sped up just a little bit but keep LRM cool down time where it is at.

[Araevin Teshurr]

Wait til Aeromechs get in the game, you won't even see them drop bombs on your head they move so fast!
ZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sug]

LaserAngel, on 23 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I think we can all agree that we are nostalgic for the pre-Artemis patch LRMs. They're not 2.0 damage anymore but I can live with that.

I think the damage is fine also. The problem is getting them to hit... : /

[Koreanese]

lol

[puratech]

I find LRMs can be one extreme or another, they can be amazing for throwing into a brawl in an open area, but terrible on maps/games where the terrain doesnt favour them, or if your team don't scout well for you. Any reliability improvements are likely to make missile boats too popular IMHO.

What I dont understand and admittedly Im a very new player, is that while LRMs and missile boats seem reasonably balanced with their shortcomings, why they are so incredibly expensive to run compared to other equally strong mech builds. It seems silly to have different running costs of builds if theyre being balanced to be equally effective.

[Redshift2k5]

Sug, on 22 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

I'm thinking increase the speed of LRMs to about 720kph. Double speed. This will let them impact at max range in 5 sec. It might be necessary to increase the cd of LRM weapons by a second, maybe two to compensate the for the new speed.

Yes please!

[Skyfaller]

Sug, on 23 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

I thought LRMs were in a good place but now that as soon as you launch your target gets a giant Incoming Missile warning on their screen. The instant warning give them too much time to react at long range.

If I find a stationary target over 800m away I fire my missiles without a lock. They get no warning and I usually hit with two volleys before they start moving. With a lock, as soon as I launch they get warned and have 10 sec to duck behind something.

You just said right there why it is balanced. You can fire the LRMs as 'direct' fire with no warning to the target..or lock them and have them home in ...but the other guy is warned.

Honestly I have ZERO problems with the missile warning system. Think of it this way: The LRM is a SUPPORT weapon. To use it as such you fire it at mechs that are actively engaged in combat with one of your team-mates. In those situations the target simply cannot break combat and run for cover no matter the warning.

The warning signal works against you when you are trying to 'snipe'. Firing at a target 800m away that is alone is not a support role..thats just you wanting a kill of your own. Those loners are usually direct fire snipers...gausscats or PPC mechs. They dont tend to move much so there you can use your 'silent' lrm volley.

Pale Jackal, on 23 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

LRMs are fine. One patch ago, I'd be lucky to get a kill, using a pair of LRM15's without Artemis.

This patch, sometimes I get 5+ kills with a pair of LRM15's with Artemis. Is Artemis alone the source of this difference? Maybe, but either way, LRMs with Artemis are definitely viable weapons. I sometimes get 5+ kills with other weapons, and sometimes I get 5+ kills with LRMs. Sounds balanced to me.

LRMs should encourage skillful play, and that means giving a distant target nearby cover plenty of time to respond. This way you have an incentive to get close to maximize damage, but that means increasing your vulnerability. Decisions, decisions!

Artemis makes the LRM's have the same missile spread as pre-artemis times. Aka they hurt more because more missiles from the volley hit. Non-artemis LRMs were nerfed and the missile spread was increased so much that nearly 70% of the missiles will miss the target. They will hit the location the mech is at but the mech itself will only be struck by a few missiles. If you don't have artemis you need to fire LRM's under 500m range so the missiles hit the mech on a horizontal angle not a vertical one...they get more target area to hit that way.

[Sug]

Skyfaller, on 23 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

You just said right there why it is balanced. You can fire the LRMs as 'direct' fire with no warning to the target..or lock them and have them home in ...but the other guy is warned.

That's not balance. That's me going around the system they have in place in order to make my weapons effective.

[Sug]

I can fire LRMs at a jenner at 450m and he can run out of my lock range (800m) before they hit him. Seems too slow to me.

[Odanan]

They should be harder to lock (to value skill), should have slower RoF and better grouping (to value ammo) and should travel much faster (to be competitive).

[Vovochka404]

Oh, get lost with ur LRMs...
Game is again an LRMonline. And u wishing more buff?

The only thing that is needed for LRM is ECM. And no buff.

Edited by Vovochka404, 28 November 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Dudeman3k]

"2- Change artemis to a true guidance module: With artemis the player can change the target of missiles in flight by locking a new target. This means the player can either fire blindly in one direction far away and then acquire a lock and the missiles will adjust their flight path in mid-air... and that the player can fire missiles at one target lock...and if the lock is lost while missiles in the air the player can lock another target and the missiles will home in on it."

GREAT idea. I second this.

[Ramses2020]

Sug, on 22 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Speed of LRMs = 360kph
Speed of SRMs = 1080

...

I'm thinking increase the speed of LRMs to about 720kph. Double speed. This will let them impact at max range in 5 sec. It might be necessary to increase the cd of LRM weapons by a second, maybe two to compensate the for the new speed.

720kph is too fast for LRM, imo. 540kph, on the other hand, I could support. It is a 50% increase in velocity, and it's still only half as fast as a SRM.

[SpiralRazor]

Shiney, on 22 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

If you've been piloting LRM boats for a while you'll know it's much more useful for the team to move up and be perhaps 100 meters behind the front line, jumping if need be to get your missiles over cover. I think being a LRM boater is one thing, being a good boater is another and maneuver, tactics and skills are very important with them, like any other mech. I think that they're finally fine again, not too good, not too bad, worth sticking on a mech to wear mechs down, but not so much that they will kill in no time.

100 meters behind the front line will, currently, have you dead in short order.