40 replies to this topic

[SpiralRazor]

So since there are more Ultra ACs coming down the line, I wanted to ask a question specifically for the Devs.

Is it possible in CE 3 to code an increasing jam rate with a weapons system?

IE: For 3 seconds the weapon cycles normally, even during ultra rate. 4th second of sustained fire and jam percentage hits 10%, each projectile fired thereafter would increase the jam percentage by 3% until you jammed it out, requiring a flat 5 second clear. Jam chance roll is checked AFTER a shot is fired, not at the start of a new one. Rolling back jam chance would be at 5% per second if no shots are fired from that weapon and there would be a small meter in the UI denoting how "jammy(hot barrel)" the weapon has become. Or have it change colors, or something to give you some feedback.

The numbers dont matter at this point, but is such a system possible to implement within the game engine?

Edited by SpiralRazor, 24 November 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Leetskeet]

Infinitely superior to bang bang jam bang jam jam bang bang bang jam bang jam

[SpiralRazor]

Leetskeet, on 24 November 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Infinitely superior to bang bang jam bang jam jam bang bang bang jam bang jam

Yes, the current system obviously cant stand as implemented. Can you imagine how often the Ultra AC/2 will jam up under the current system????

[BlackSquirrel]

Yes simple matter of condional statement.

If
{ then xyz = 3}

Else if
{blah blah then xyz = A * .3}

do while
{UAC/5 = what the hell ever}
and so forth.

Been awhile since I dun gone and coded fer gradz, but yes your idea is feasible.

Whether I like it...

[Kyrie]

The current UAC5 jam mechanic makes the weapon pretty unreliable... saving the extra ton per UAC for regular seems sensible for builds like the 'phract 4X.

[SpiralRazor]

Bumped because i think this is the best idea for UAC implementation, of any type.

[Schlaung]

The current jam mechanic is fine for UAC5's, as it won't jam unless you're timing it poorly or double tapping, but something like this would probably be better in the long run when/if they implement the faster firing UAC's or RAC's.

[Vapor Trail]

The thing with the Ultra is that the jam mechanic is designed to make it slightly "worse" than the AC/5 on average.

Basically if you fire it enough at max RoF, you will lose enough cooldown time to a jammed weapon that the average DPS drops to below that of the AC/5.

The only way I can think of to improve this situation, is to have the jam require less time on average to fix, but also consume a shot of ammo.

[MrPenguin]

BlackSquirrel, on 24 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Yes simple matter of condional statement.

If
{ then xyz = 3}

Else if
{blah blah then xyz = A * .3}

do while
{UAC/5 = what the hell ever}
and so forth.

Been awhile since I dun gone and coded fer gradz, but yes your idea is feasible.

Whether I like it...

Yeah, this sounds about right.

[endeceive]

Yes! Build up some sort of "heat" meter on the weapon itself, now you have to make interesting choices about using the weapon.

As it is, some RNG result has much more impact than the choices you're making.

Also this would play much better with lag - last night I threw a UAC on my centurion, went out, first time I pushed the fire button (not intending to double fire) it fired once and then jammed. I think I was holding the button down too long because it hadn't recognized the first firing yet; but whatever it was the experience was crappy.

[shadowrwolf]

if a gun jammed as much and as often as this one dose it would never see the field of battle.
no other gun in the game jams why would this one be any different.

[Webber]

Schlaung, on 07 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

The current jam mechanic is fine for UAC5's, as it won't jam unless you're timing it poorly or double tapping, but something like this would probably be better in the long run when/if they implement the faster firing UAC's or RAC's.

Actually, I've seen the Jam happen on single shots too.

[Vapor Trail]

shadowrwolf, on 07 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

if a gun jammed as much and as often as this one dose it would never see the field of battle.
no other gun in the game jams why would this one be any different.

No other gun is capable of doubling it's base RoF either. Don't want jams, use an AC, not a UAC.

[shadowrwolf]

Vapor Trail, on 07 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

No other gun is capable of doubling it's base RoF either. Don't want jams, use an AC, not a UAC.

Vapor Trail, on 07 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

No other gun is capable of doubling it's base RoF either. Don't want jams, use an AC, not a UAC.

why would you field a gun that dose not work.
why not refine the mechanistic so it dose not jam, or implement safety features to prevent firing too fast and jamming by exceeding the weapons capability

[SaJeel]

wolf i think you're missing the point, its a game mechanic, not trying to invoke realism. You are changing reliability for power, its a fair trade off and forces you to make a choice. What this seems like is you just want to UAC5 to be better, but that doesnt make a good game. What players want isn't what players enjoy.

[armitage]

SpiralRazor, on 24 November 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Yes, the current system obviously cant stand as implemented. Can you imagine how often the Ultra AC/2 will jam up under the current system????

You're assuming the jam % will be the same for both which while logical it isn't necessarily true. Aside from that I think the jam mechanic would be fine as long as they fixed it so it wouldn't jam the first shot or allowed you to toggle the fire mode. Even with the high percentage of jamming 3 UAC5's is still ridiculous and anything more than a minor buff to jamming % would not be a good idea.

[Zyllos]

Lower jam to ~5% but up the jam time to ~20s.

You are basically playing with fire at this point. So do you go for maximum damage in a chance your weapon will be rendered useless for basically the duration of the current fight or do you hold back?

Right now, jam time is so low that you will always be better off just holding down the fire button because it comes back pretty quickly. It's not worth taking concentration away to fire the weapon every few seconds to avoid jam.

[Kraven Kor]

shadowrwolf, on 07 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

why would you field a gun that dose not work.
why not refine the mechanistic so it dose not jam, or implement safety features to prevent firing too fast and jamming by exceeding the weapons capability

M-16, 'Nam.

Or look at how many current soldiers prefer older, reliable weapons to some of the newer, problematic ones.

Look at the A-10 Warthog, where they cannot fire the weapon at maximum ROF for more than a short burst or the plane will stall and fall out of the sky.

Consider some of the tanks fielded in WWII that were known to be problematic - some were even seen as death traps by those soldiers forced into them.

Look at the F-35's problems.

$#!+ Happens. If you don't want to deal with the jamming, don't use the U-AC. I know I never did in TT - because while it was a 1 in 37 chance of rolling snake-eyes on 2d6, there was an approximate 1 in 2 chance of me rolling snake eyes every gorram time I tried to double tap with them. I took to using them in standard mode, always, and just preferred them due to weight, heat, and range (which, IIRC, are all better than standard AC of same size.)

[Peiper]

We could have it work like in tabletop. You can choose to fire it single or double rate. Every time you fire it double rate, it has a 1/36 chance to jam. If it jams, it stays jammed until repaired after a battle. At single rate it acts exactly like a standard autocannon.

(removing tongue from cheek)

[Kinilan]

The UAC5 is the best ballistic weapon hands down. It has the best DPS in SINGLE FIRE and it gets even better when you double tap. It's dps to tonnage and heat to dps ratios are the best. If you can aim no direct fire weapon beats the UAC5. The UAC5 can't be beat IF you use it properly and the way to do that is not go Rambo with it. You can't just hold down the fire button like an AC2. You need to control your rate of fire and only use doubletap when you really really need it. It sounds easy. Just control your rate fire. But it's much harder to manage than it sounds and that bit of required skill is what really makes the UAC5 shine. Being able to keep it firing on single as fast as you can without triggering a doubletap that might jam you up and only choosing to doubletap when you really need it.

the Jam chance is high, the cooldown on a jam is high. both are frustrating but I think the weapon deserves the jam stats it has now. To make it jam less or unjam quicker or give you X amount of time of free doubletap would just make the best ballistic weapon even better. It's already amazing if you can manage it and doesn't need to be easier to use.