9 replies to this topic

[Sivade]

Hello all!

New player of TT and I'm trying to figure out a few pieces of equipment that some of my mechs have. I have the recent Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, and Tech Manual books, but they didn't explain what these pieces of equipment did very well, or at least if they apply to my situation in-game.

Question 1: ECM

I'm driving a Raven-3L and I understand it has a six-hex radius ECM field. The book tells me that it will interrupt communication systems and mess up C3 computer systems. The mechs I'm fighting against do not have C3 computer systems or Artemis-4. So should I bother worrying about an ECM field? I thought the ECM field might have added some kind of hit-modifier for enemy missiles or target lock if they were inside the six-hex radius--but that's MWO's influence, not TT.

Question 2: TAG

My second question is how important Tag is in my battle situations. My Raven has Tag'd an enemy mech that is seven hexes away. Does this mean my Catapult, which is twelve hexes away, will have the same to-hit modifier as the Raven? How does this Tag thing work? Do my support mechs also have to have Tag equipment in order to benefit for it? The rules say: Unlike spotting for indirect LRM fire, a unit can use TAG to spot and make a weapon attack with no additional to-hit penalty. Does this mean that a friendly catapult only needs to roll its gunnery skill and movement penalties, or what 'to-hit penalty' is being ignored specifically?


Many thanks to any TT gurus out there that can help me with this!

[Keisuke Nagisa]

ECM has a variety of uses, like you said it disrupts artemis and C3 systems. It also disrupts narc beacons and Active probes (used to find hidden units). If you aren't using any of that then you don't have to worry about it. If you want to delve deeper, the Tactical Operations rulebook has advanced rules for ECM suites, things like using it to nullify other ECM or generating ghost targets.

What tag does is this. Normally to for a mech to fire lrms at a target it cannot see it must use indirect fire. A friendly units is used to spot for this. The firing unit has to add a +1 penalty to its to hit roll. If Tag is used then the firing unit can roll to hit as normal as if it had LOS. Tag is also used when firing arrow artillery missiles or special semi-guided munitions for missiles and artillery which allows it to ignore some movement modifiers.

[Sivade]

Thank you very much for the insightful reply, Keisuke!

Since we aren't using the Hidden Units rule or double-blind playstyle, sounds like the ECM won't do much for me. If all the Tag does is remove a +1 modifier for the Indirect Fire, then I suppose that can still be useful! In the game I played, the mechs had LoS on the enemy target anyway.

All the same, thanks for the support!

[Kobold]

TAG doesn't do anything for normal LRMs, indirectly fired or not. TAG only helps with semi-guided LRMs and Arrow IV homing missiles.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

Kobold, on 18 November 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

TAG doesn't do anything for normal LRMs, indirectly fired or not. TAG only helps with semi-guided LRMs and Arrow IV homing missiles.

From Total Warfare:

TAG (Targeting Acquisition Gear)
Targeting acquisition gear designates (or “paints”) an enemy
unit to be struck by another unit’s weapons. Instead of making
a to-hit roll for TAG during the Weapon Attack Phase, all units
needing to make TAG to-hit rolls do so after the end of the
Movement Phase (Aerospace), but before the beginning of the
Weapon Attack Phase (initiative is still followed, however).
To use TAG equipment for target designation, calculate the
to-hit number as for a standard weapon attack. Unlike spotting
for indirect LRM fi re (see LRM Indirect Fire, p. 111), a unit can
use TAG to spot and make a weapon attack with no additional
to-hit penalty.

Edited by Keisuke Nagisa, 19 November 2012 - 03:25 AM.

[Kobold]

That rule text does not support your position that TAG in any way assists indirect LRM fire. The penalty it is talking about is the penalty for shooting and spotting at the same time. In fact, the TAG description never discusses what TAG is used for at all, only HOW it works. (The Battletech rules books are pretty terrible in this regard, forcing you to flip through numerous sections to find the information you want)

The rules for indirect fire (TW, p.111) make no mention of TAG.

However, page 142 of TW, under "Semi-Guided LRMs" in the Special Munitions section, we get a description of how TAG works with them. Note that this specifically mentions the removal of the indirect fire modifier.

Quote

When firing semi-guided missiles at any target in range successfully designated by a friendly TAG (at right), the attacker ignores the target movement modifier. When firing indirectly, also ignore indirect fire and spotter movement modifiers.

Also in tacOps, page 354, you have the rules for Arrow IV homing munitions (which are significantly longer, so I won't repost them here).

Lastly, NARC may be used to fire indirectly without a spotter (TW, p. 132) however that still does not remove the +1 penalty for firing indirectly. ("all other standard modifiers for Indirect LRM fire apply")

EDIT: Also note that ECM does not prevent TAG from functioning.

Edited by Kobold, 19 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

Hmm guess i misunderstood that then. I know tag is used for those other things but I thought it also helped regular lrms slightly,

[Will HellFire]

I completely disagree with Kobold. TAG is used for:

1: The unit using TAG does not have the +1 firing penalty for other attacks on the same turn normally incurred upon when spotting for indirect fire.
2: The unit firing at a TAGged enemy does not incur in the +1 penalty for using indirect fire.

Having said that, if what Kobold says makes sense to you (it does not to me) feel free to only use TAG with his semi-guided missiles, thus reducing the effectivity for a fine piece of equipment.

[SharkaPult]

Will HellFire, on 03 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

I completely disagree with Kobold. TAG is used for:

1: The unit using TAG does not have the +1 firing penalty for other attacks on the same turn normally incurred upon when spotting for indirect fire.
2: The unit firing at a TAGged enemy does not incur in the +1 penalty for using indirect fire.

Having said that, if what Kobold says makes sense to you (it does not to me) feel free to only use TAG with his semi-guided missiles, thus reducing the effectivity for a fine piece of equipment.

Common misconception, see here. TAG does not work for indirect fire, it only works with semi-guided LRMs/Arrow munitions.
Makes a fine house rule though, imho.

[Kobold]

Will HellFire, on 03 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

2: The unit firing at a TAGged enemy does not incur in the +1 penalty for using indirect fire.

Citation needed.

Edited by Kobold, 03 December 2012 - 11:32 PM.