18 replies to this topic

[checker]

It's a waste of CBills to acquire ECM, the radar is so bad in this game that expending anything on ECM will be pointless and a total waste. When radar fails to pick up a target within 50M of your mech and you have to literally get LOS for it to register why would anyone need ECM? Will ECM make you invisible, even to LOS?

That ends my rant for the day; can ya tell I'm less than pleased with the electronics as it functions in the current game? sheesh what a friggin disaster.

[Adrian Steel]

In other news, MWO players worldwide are crying that the Raven battlemech is overpowered as ECM goes live.

[Lauranis]

checker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

It's a waste of CBills to acquire ECM, the radar is so bad in this game that expending anything on ECM will be pointless and a total waste. When radar fails to pick up a target within 50M of your mech and you have to literally get LOS for it to register why would anyone need ECM? Will ECM make you invisible, even to LOS?

That ends my rant for the day; can ya tell I'm less than pleased with the electronics as it functions in the current game? sheesh what a friggin disaster.

If you take a look at this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...0-into-the-lab/

particularly this section

Quote

ECM

We've had several internal playtests. Overall I'm excited to see this hit the battlefield, as it adds a very interesting tactical component. However, in its current state is very overpowered and makes certain mech builds even more useful (Gausspults). There was some general usability feedback from the team. Some found it hard to visualize, others wanted more indication that a friendly unit had an ECM equipped.

We're keeping it in test until some HUD/BattleGrid changes help smooth out communication, along with making sure the ECM is not OP. For those wanting to hide from LRMs, this will be your must have item.

You might garner a greater level of information on the topic. At present neither ECM nor BAP is implemented in the version of the game we are playing, they are place holder items for when the system they use goes live (hopefully soon).

going by this:

http://www.sarna.net...le_Active_Probe
.
we can certainly expect BAP to act more like traditional radar, rather than the cone-of-vision, line-of-sight system we have now. Also going by this:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM

as well as several developers blogs and Q and A's related to the topic (have a read through the developers corner of the forums, well worth it) indicate that ECM will be a module that can mitigate the power of BAP through (possibly) straight up jamming, or false signature creation, as well as possibly disrupt the systems that allow for target sharing, as well as TAG and NARC.

moral of the story? ECM at the moment does nothing, might be worth saving the rage until it actually does something

[Hauser]

Could you post an illustrative screen shot of how radar is utterly useless?

I tend to pick up on the red boxes allot faster then the cammod mechs.

[Stingz]

Loading up ECM and BAP on my Raven 3L as soon as each is ready, cutting off the scouts from the LRM boats and catching them before they see me will be fun.

Edited by Stingz, 17 November 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Youngblood]

checker, on 17 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I am aware that ECM is not in the game. I am also aware that I will not need it when it does go live, no one will. Had you paid attention at all to the content of the thread it was related to the utterly useless RADAR that exists and the utterly useless need for ECM. Flippin forum trolls - oh wait he's a friggin Brit <<< new rant.

Who are you? Are you a developer for MWO? No? I'm not either. So then, where are you getting your opinion on this piece of equipment that hasn't been implemented yet? Speculation? Ah, I see.

Well then, let's speculate a little here. On tabletop, ECM has never affected target acquisition unless specifically optional-ruled to do so in conjunction with Hidden Unit rules. For the majority of games, it is used for disrupting things like Artemis and the super-munchy C3 Network. I speculate that your association of ECM's usefulness being tied to the quality of radar in this game is baseless and overly reactionary based on your emotions about the game.

I also speculate that those emotions about the game come from you get backshotted by light and medium 'Mechs flanking you too often, as well as not observing the horizon closely enough to spot support-fire 'Mechs gunning for you. I believe those players are using valid tactics. So then, what tactics are you using?

[p00k]

OP seems to forget that the target sharing we have in game is essentially a built-in c3 network (not the voip thing). yes, the same network that ecm nullifies (in lore). which means, if it works as it did in lore, in addition to whatever stealth it gives you, it also means that the only people who can target you are those with direct line of sight on you. other players won't see a red V if another enemy is spotting you. you won't show up on the minimap of anyone who can't directly see you. LRMs can't lock onto you unless the boat has direct LOS on you.

if it works as in lore. if they change it like they did narc, who knows

[Dirus Nigh]

p00k, on 17 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

OP seems to forget that the target sharing we have in game is essentially a built-in c3 network (not the voip thing). yes, the same network that ecm nullifies (in lore). which means, if it works as it did in lore, in addition to whatever stealth it gives you, it also means that the only people who can target you are those with direct line of sight on you. other players won't see a red V if another enemy is spotting you. you won't show up on the minimap of anyone who can't directly see you. LRMs can't lock onto you unless the boat has direct LOS on you.

if it works as in lore. if they change it like they did narc, who knows

No the targeting system in the game is not C3. The only target data that is shared with the rest of the team are actively targeted opponents. A C3 networks would relay all data you are picking up passively.

ECM is not a stealth system. It does not hide a mech from radar. ECM jams communication. A mech must be in side the ECM's range in order to be effected. This should be 180m That is very close range. This would block narc beacons, C3, shared active target data, and possibly artemis. Note it should not be able to block artemis because its a laser guided system but it does. That is speculating how ECM will work in MWO from how it works in table top.

Any mech out side the 180 meters should be able to target an ECM carrying mech and relay that target data. One of the reasons voice needs to be integrated into the game is that ECM should effect radio communications.

The addition of ECM will not be a game braker.

[Lauranis]

checker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

It's a waste of CBills to acquire ECM, the radar is so bad in this game that expending anything on ECM will be pointless and a total waste. When radar fails to pick up a target within 50M of your mech and you have to literally get LOS for it to register why would anyone need ECM? Will ECM make you invisible, even to LOS?

That ends my rant for the day; can ya tell I'm less than pleased with the electronics as it functions in the current game? sheesh what a friggin disaster.

What part of my post indicated to you that I had not paid attention to what you had said?

You clearly indicated your displeasure with the implementation of the electronic warfare systems in the current build. I pointed out to you that the electronic warfare systems are in fact not implemented yet and are placeholder items. I then go onto postulate how ECM and future, more advanced, radar systems might work based upon the developers commentary on such items combined with referenced articles from a known reliable source. I then go onto mention how the two modules might interact in an effort to point out to you why you might find that ECM will be a valuable, and quite possibly fundamentally necessary part of the game.

Considering that I was the first person to reply in a reasonable fashion to your post (and was only the second reply), and that I in fact quoted your original post in mine, I would say that I very much have taken into account the topic and content of your post.

from my reply you go onto post this:

checker, on 17 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I am aware that ECM is not in the game. I am also aware that I will not need it when it does go live, no one will. Had you paid attention at all to the content of the thread it was related to the utterly useless RADAR that exists and the utterly useless need for ECM. Flippin forum trolls - oh wait he's a friggin Brit <<< new rant.

I would counter that it is you that has had a fundamental lack of understanding as to what I said, and not that I have misunderstood you. Further, your frankly baseless implication that I am a "Flippin forum troll" combined with a futile attempt to bring my nationality (or as it happens place of residence) into the conversation mark you sir as the troll, and not I.

Edited by Lauranis, 17 November 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[Grugore]

Don't feed the trolls. Or if you do, put some poison in it.

[CocoaJin]

ECM will likely just allow a mech to get little closer before showing up on radar. i suspect its just going to allow little mechs to poke out enough to get radar locks on distant targets without simulataneously popping up on the enemy's radar. Those using Thermal will still see them, guass snipers will still pop them, etc, etc...its not like we are using the WoT view model, these targets will still be seen easily in brawling situtations.

[Rejarial Galatan]

dont need to buy ECM when by default of a poor game design choice, we already have it, for free, no xp needed, no critical slots needed, no cbill's, we have it, and its free.

[Stingz]

CocoaJin, on 17 November 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

ECM will likely just allow a mech to get little closer before showing up on radar.

ECM works within a short range, and blacks out radar when close enough (alongside other things).

[p00k]

Dirus Nigh, on 17 November 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

No the targeting system in the game is not C3. The only target data that is shared with the rest of the team are actively targeted opponents. A C3 networks would relay all data you are picking up passively.

umm, yes it is

if you're actively targeted by an enemy who has LOS on you, and you have ECM, you shouldn't show up on the radar or HUD of enemies that don't have LOS on you. and other enemies that do have LOS on you would only be able to see your weapons/armor by actively targeting you and acquiring the data themselves

[Tarl Cabot]

I have some ideas but still attempting to understand how it would make gauss-carrying mechs more OP. The difficulty of acquiring a lock, making LRM ineffective against it? Or other direct fire mechs from noticing where it is located since there is no visible light (lasers) or LRM launch effects? Basically the only time I can see a gauss projectile is when it is fired at me or passing near me.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 November 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

p00k, on 17 November 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

umm, yes it is

if you're actively targeted by an enemy who has LOS on you, and you have ECM, you shouldn't show up on the radar or HUD of enemies that don't have LOS on you. and other enemies that do have LOS on you would only be able to see your weapons/armor by actively targeting you and acquiring the data themselves

No its not C3.

ECM only effects units that are with in a 180m radius. If you are not with in 180 you share or receive data normally. An ECM does not prevent a unit from being targeted beyond that radius. An LRM equipped mech would aquire a target lock at range. The mech would still show up on a mini map if actively targeted at range.

[checker]

Luaranis - my apologies sir. My comments were uncalled or and for that I apologize.

[MajorBorris]

I realy like the game so far but the radar implementation is only adequate.

The maps are so small that radar is secondary at best to LOS/HUD indicater, when I can walk a few meters and see the enemy base and all the heat signitures it makes me wonder what effect a Raven will realy have when ECM comes out anyway. Since the the small map size will guaranty a 5 minute brawl fest, the scout role is mitigated after the first 30 seconds.

I also would like to know why we have the only square radar ever invented? If they thought it would look like the free mod MWLL(which has a superior sighting system and much better radar) they are wrong, it would just look like a real radar screen. I spend to much time looking at the corners of the square which is probably the reason no military or goverment on Earth uses square radar.

The HUD radar is not very cool either as it blocks the cockpit and view, I hope they incorporate the radar into the cockpits along with other sim like instruments completly in the future, making cockpit layout an important design element to our mech choices.

[Marzepans]

Keeping my fingers crossed that ECM prevents all missile locks