60 replies to this topic

[Grugore]

Roadbuster, on 27 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/.../66088-farming/



Nothing more to say.

Thanks for posting that. It seems they're taking it seriously, at least.

[PlzDie]

Bluten, on 27 November 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

They might still do it... but it would be very illogical and counter productive to do so before actually fixing the economy itself first. As I've said many times, they need to remove AFK rewards and reduce or remove payment from quick deaths in which you do little to no damage in a match. They shouldn't allow you to queue up with no weapons at all then still pay you for it.

1) Queuing up then not playing should result in nothing for the match.
2) Queuing up with 0 weapons and/or 0 armor should also result in nothing for the match.
^ Those 2 changes right there would literally cause probably 99% of AFKs/suiciders to quit doing it.

Agreed, the economy does need a lot off work.

[Vassago Rain]

Don't care.
It was a bit of of a joke at first, then it became annoying, only to be upgraded to 'tough luck,' mandatory, and now Duke explodes at the start of every game.

PGI need to fix the economy itself. Punishing anyone won't accomplish anything.

[Grugore]

Vassago Rain, on 27 November 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Don't care.
It was a bit of of a joke at first, then it became annoying, only to be upgraded to 'tough luck,' mandatory, and now Duke explodes at the start of every game.

PGI need to fix the economy itself. Punishing anyone won't accomplish anything.

But making it so they don't get rewarded for it, as discussed earlier will. I can't wait.

[Bokehmon]

Unfortunately, it seems like the bugs being exploited, and minor (well, one or two each game..) is enough to sink this ship.
With the extreme learning curve, and now the issue of tk'er and exploiters... I'm finally done. I have/had high hopes for this game. Good luck!

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Bokehmon, on 27 November 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

Unfortunately, it seems like the bugs being exploited, and minor (well, one or two each game..) is enough to sink this ship.
With the extreme learning curve, and now the issue of tk'er and exploiters... I'm finally done. I have/had high hopes for this game. Good luck!

I don't think you should write it off so easily. Come back after a few patches and maybe things will be better.

[Bloody Moon]

Vassago Rain, on 27 November 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Don't care.
It was a bit of of a joke at first, then it became annoying, only to be upgraded to 'tough luck,' mandatory, and now Duke explodes at the start of every game.

PGI need to fix the economy itself. Punishing anyone won't accomplish anything.

The economy is the priority that's for sure, but those who abuse the system shouldn't get to keep their stuff.

I would start with refusing to grant any reward to those who do 0 damage except when they participate in capping, 'cos they obviously did nothing for the outcome of the battle.

[Elizander]

Grugore, on 27 November 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

I've lost count of how many times I've dropped and someone deliberately overheats and destroys their mech. Quite frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of it. These people are just plain evil, in my opinion. They're lazy and don't give a **** that they are ruining the game for others. So. Do you think it's fair to ban them? Please limit replies to the question and refrain about commenting on how the trial mechs suck or how the reward system is broken. There are plenty of threads about that already.

The best solution is always to fix the system rather than spending infinite manpower banning free accounts.

[Cole Allard]

Legal status:

In case of doubt against the accused - he is free of charge!


So, if you can 100% garantee that the disconnect at the beginning of a match is farming - then yes.
in ANY other case, blackscreen, wrong mech, grandma on fire...what ever...even if I choose not to play after clicking launch (what is unfair of course, but my full right) as long as you can NOT prove me that I clicked launch without the intention to play at first..so on purpose of farming. Then...and ONLY then...I agree.

Of course, I clicked on "bann them"...nobody wants them. But if there is the risk to kick only ONE player that did not do this on purpose, the whole idea turns bad.


I know, its not the place to mention this...but the only way to get a full team you can count on, is for PGI to get us 8man teams back again.

[PlzDie]

Bloody Moon, on 27 November 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

The economy is the priority that's for sure, but those who abuse the system shouldn't get to keep their stuff.

I would start with refusing to grant any reward to those who do 0 damage except when they participate in capping, 'cos they obviously did nothing for the outcome of the battle.

Keeping rewards from players that does 0 damage will not be fair to some players, I played games where I got 0 damage the reason for that was I was standing behind enemy LRM boats tagging them for my team's LRM boats.
I did not shoot because that would have resulted in these enemy boats to realize that there was something behind them, I get no assists only spotting XP.
There should be another way for dealing with these guys, you can't go 0 damage, 0 XP that would then be unfair to the guys still running trial mechs as they do not get any XP if all they do is just marking targets for friendly LRM boats.

[Soulscour]

The long grind for first mech is not a good thing. Still these suicide grinders are worse. I don't think bans will solve the problem as they just create another account. Resetting thier accounts to nothing is probably a better solution. They can continue playing, perhaps the right way after the lesson is learned. Still, PGI is currently doing nothing.

[Ledabot]

Once the 3rd stage of matchmaking is in place, all the people that have horrible scores because they farm will be lumped in the same matches. Lets see how they like farming when they all are farming.

[Vassago Rain]

Bloody Moon, on 27 November 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

The economy is the priority that's for sure, but those who abuse the system shouldn't get to keep their stuff.

I would start with refusing to grant any reward to those who do 0 damage except when they participate in capping, 'cos they obviously did nothing for the outcome of the battle.

So what exactly is abuse of the system? I've been outright farming bad players since open beta. But we have scripters who farm in the traditional MMO sense. Then there are suicide farmers. And some aren't doing it for profit at all, but just to grief. There are legit disconnects and bugs, too, and many, many, many players who simply accept it as the state of the economy - which is probably the saddest thing.

Taking anything away won't change much. They need to fix it, and leave well enough alone. If it was an actual beta, they should reset everybody.

[Ilfi]

Roadbuster, on 27 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

Nothing more to say.

Those changes were a joke.

1.) You have four Trial Mechs, not one. Nothing was done to stop farmers form simply rotating between the four.

2.) Disconnecting after a death still rewards you with a fat load of C-Bills (see: "you will receive earned rewards, plus match rewards"). You could literally put 22 Jump Jets on a Catapults with no leg armor, jump so high that landing breaks your legs, leave the match and still earn over 75k per round as a free player.

3.) What counts as abuse? Is it having a 0.08KDR? Is it dying before in less than two minutes? Is it running straight into the enemy and dying before you can turn around? Not repairing internals? Verbally stating that you only care about fast money? Reckless play is not the same as playing with ill intent.

Beyond the above, I would engourage you to re-read the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use. They are nowhere near as potent as the developers would lead you to believe.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It shouldn't be considered abuse/grieving just to choose a farming method in a video game. If they don't want you to do it... then how about taking the rewards for doing it away? It reminds me of how Mythic suspended my account in Warhammer for using a terrain exploit to bypass a keep door. Instead of doing this BS to your paying customers, why not just take 5minutes with the map editor and fix it? This change would take a similarity short period of time to put in. 0 damage dealt = 0 money earned. Never moved your Mech = 0 money earned. Death by self damage = 0 money earned. How complicated of scripting can that really be? They should be able to put all of this in with less than 1 whole day's worth of work. Instead they launched Open Beta with these issues totally ignored and we still have yet to see them.

Edited by Bluten, 27 November 2012 - 02:49 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

Duppie1974, on 27 November 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Keeping rewards from players that does 0 damage will not be fair to some players, I played games where I got 0 damage the reason for that was I was standing behind enemy LRM boats tagging them for my team's LRM boats.
I did not shoot because that would have resulted in these enemy boats to realize that there was something behind them, I get no assists only spotting XP.
There should be another way for dealing with these guys, you can't go 0 damage, 0 XP that would then be unfair to the guys still running trial mechs as they do not get any XP if all they do is just marking targets for friendly LRM boats.

1. The system percieves shooting TAG as hitting, so it can be solved.
2. Been there, done that. You could've done damage to them, the only thing you need to make sure is to hit them when the LRM fire hits, this way your shots are considered damage from the LRMs and you won't give away your position if you are standing behind them.

Vassago Rain, on 27 November 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

So what exactly is abuse of the system? I've been outright farming bad players since open beta. But we have scripters who farm in the traditional MMO sense. Then there are suicide farmers. And some aren't doing it for profit at all, but just to grief. There are legit disconnects and bugs, too, and many, many, many players who simply accept it as the state of the economy - which is probably the saddest thing.

Taking anything away won't change much. They need to fix it, and leave well enough alone. If it was an actual beta, they should reset everybody.

By abusing i meant both suicide farmers and bots, but the solution i offered only punishes the latter as the former is harder to counter.

[jonny1982]

As a few others have said - fix the reward system and this goes away. If a player doesn't make any useful contribution in a match (spotting, causing damage, assisting capture) you don't get paid win or lose. Occasionally people are going to have a legitimate but very bad game and get hit with this but I'd think that'd be pretty rare. No need to wield the ban hammer.

[Solis Obscuri]

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

jonny1982, on 27 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

As a few others have said - fix the reward system and this goes away. If a player doesn't make any useful contribution in a match (spotting, causing damage, assisting capture) you don't get paid win or lose. Occasionally people are going to have a legitimate but very bad game and get hit with this but I'd think that'd be pretty rare. No need to wield the ban hammer.

It won't go away entirely but I promise you almost all of them would stop doing it. The few that are left however would be actual grievers, not just players farming, so those you could punish without doubt or guilt. You could also crack down on it much easier once the amount of players doing it plummets to nearly nothing.

[MustrumRidcully]

If the best way to farm C-Bills were to fight hard and engage the enemy, and trying to win (but even if you fail), then farming C-Bills would be desirable behavior.

Make it so.

IMO the problem they have with this approach is because they want to use economics to balance tech advantages. Expensive tech costs more to repair or rearm. But to make this relevant, you cannot allow too high winnings. But if you would be removed from this constraint, they could give more rewards for people that deal damage, make assists or kills, assist on spotting, people that cap, and so on, and in the end give so much more rewards for just playing the game rather than trial-suiciding yourself that the latter would become unattractive.