20 replies to this topic

[Long Draw]

Also, who is interested in deploying this weapon in the field?

[CoffiNail]

Possibly as a Command module, you click on the overview map, and a shell falls to rain death

On the mechs themselves, probably not, the actual longtom like MWLL? No.

[Shiinore]

It'll depend. Long Toms (along with PPC/Gauss boats with jumpjets) ruined MW4 online for me.

[Ravager AI]

*Shudder* Altho' very poweful that ****** was hell to aim properly in MW4. Granted I only ever used it once but that was enough for me.

But I see no reason not to include it. It has the pro of acting as an artillery shell with the con of being inaccurate due to the ballistic curve.

I don't know if TT supports it but a Hunchback with a Long Tom could fill a nice support role. (Just an example, I don't know if you can fit a Long Tom on a Hunchback.)

[Monky]

I think mech mounted long tom/arrow IV/Thumper/Sniper cannon are available as far as the timeline goes, but squarely in the 'experimental' ruleset, which we haven't seen much indicating that the devs are looking at those items.

I wouldn't rule it out for a content expansion, and you can likely call in support from an actual Long Tom/Arrow IV/Thumper/Sniper Cannon as a commander, but I would definitely not expect it to be in game at launch as a mech based weapon.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Long Toms are NOT mountable on Mechs, they would take up way too many crit spaced, and please don't quote MW4 here because the makers of that were complete idiots regarding what artillery a Mech can mount. Arrow VI yes but takes up so many crits (15 with 12 max in the side torsos) it pours into a second location. Long Toms take up 30 crits which no ruleset ever allows a single weapon to expand beyond 2 locations and the Long Tom would require 3-4, up to 10 in 1 arm, 12 in the side, up to 7 in the center (compact Gyro & Engine) and the last 1 in the other side, or 12 in each side and 6 in center. BTW I just takes 1 critical hit to disable the entire weapon. /rant

[Cruxshadow]

I hope that they will be available from the start, but who knows. Fire support and sniping both being important aspects of the game, otherwise it just turns into a slugfest.

[Monky]

JadeTimberwolf, on 07 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Long Toms are NOT mountable on Mechs, they would take up way too many crit spaced, and please don't quote MW4 here because the makers of that were complete idiots regarding what artillery a Mech can mount. Arrow VI yes but takes up so many crits (15 with 12 max in the side torsos) it pours into a second location. Long Toms take up 30 crits which no ruleset ever allows a single weapon to expand beyond 2 locations and the Long Tom would require 3-4, up to 10 in 1 arm, 12 in the side, up to 7 in the center (compact Gyro & Engine) and the last 1 in the other side, or 12 in each side and 6 in center. BTW I just takes 1 critical hit to disable the entire weapon. /rant

There is a mech-portable version of each artillery weapon system that is reduced range and tonnage/crit requirements, making them mountable. http://www.sarna.net...Long_Tom_Cannon only takes 15 crits, so an arm and torso would be able to handle it.

[JadeTimberwolf]

That looks like rules for the Arrow IV artillery to the letter.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 07 May 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I vaguely recall 'mechs being able to mount Arrow IV launchers or a Thumper, but no heavier artillery.

But I'd much rather see mech mortars.

[ice trey]

They're a bit too big. Even the more compact versions of artillery cannons that can be mounted on 'mechs tend to take up a ridiculous number of criticals.
Arrow IV artillery missiles would be one option, but I think they'd frustrate new players more than anything else. Also, they're more or less dumb-fire unless you're using the Homing version, in which case you'd need to TAG your targets as it comes into the field.

If there were NPC vehicles included in this game, it could be interesting to see a Mobile Long Tom or a few Thumper turrets in a mission, but I think that they'd be wasteful on a 'mech - especially since this game seems (thank god) to be more true to the tabletop customization rules than Mechwarrior 4 was.

[EDMW CSN]

You might get artillery cannons which are experimental, or at best the Thumper or Sniper artillery. No way long toms could be fit on mechs tho.

Heliopolis with it's Sniper Artillery Piece.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 07 May 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Monky]

IMO, a 100 tonner with a full fledged sniper and thumper, sniper on one side, thumper on the other, with about 40 rounds for each would be a sweet mech. you can fit 4 med lasers on it as well for close defense as well as a 3/5 engine and full armor, shed some armor for a C3 Slave (provided the weapons can benefit from it - not sure if arty applies to C3) and a GECM and you're in business as a dedicated long long long range support mech.

Edited by monky, 07 May 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

From the other thread on essentially the same topic:

Strum Wealh, on 28 April 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

As far as the actual ranges, the Developers have stated (in Q&A 05; see here) that the "long" range from the BattleTech table top game (see here for a list of weapon and equipment stats) would represent the weapons' "maximum effective range" in MWO.

The ranges on the Weapons and Equipment Lists linked above are in units of hexes (a hexagonal area on the TT game's playing board), where 1 hex equates to an area that is 30 meters wide.
So, to get the weapons' max. effective ranges in meters, multiply the ranges in the lists by 30.

The Developers did also state that they would be implementing the minimum ranges for some weapons (ex. PPCs and missiles) but not for others (ex. AC-2 and AC-5), where it seems sensible.

Also of note is that the Devs listed missiles and artillery separately under "projectile weapons" with ACs, Gauss Rifles, and MGs being listed under "ballistic weapons" (in Dev Blog 05; see here).
Could that mean that we'd have access to actual 'Mech-mounted artillery weapons:
Arrow IV Missile Artillery System
Long Tom Cannon (not to be confused with the Long Tom Artillery Piece)
Sniper Artillery Cannon (not to be confused with the Sniper Artillery Piece), and
Thumper Cannon (not to be confused with the Thumper Artillery Piece)


Would the Arrow IV have its canon maximum range of ~4200 meters (canon Arrow IV range is 8 mapsheets, each mapsheet is 17.5 hexes long, 1 hex = 30 meters)?

[JadeTimberwolf]

That setup would put you at about 91% armor, and wouldn't be a very well designed mech considering with the damage output of those weapons it would only have a BV of 1605

[Yeach]

Shiinore, on 07 May 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It'll depend. Long Toms (along with PPC/Gauss boats with jumpjets) ruined MW4 online for me.

I don't see how they were bad.
They were hard to use as they were in-direct fire
They generated alot of heat
They weighed alot
They didn't do that much damage.

Long toms were generally hard to use in MW4 and I actually wished they were a little more powerful so I could lob them over to where the jump-sniping mechs were hiding from.

[Sporklift]

Maybe as part of a commander ability to call in 'off board' artillery strikes, it could involve some special ammunition types as well like FASCAM, incendiaries, ECM, sensor, and cluster munitions that cover a larger area.

[neodym]

Shiinore, on 07 May 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It'll depend. Long Toms (along with PPC/Gauss boats with jumpjets) ruined MW4 online for me.

why? it ruined game for you?? that was extremly EXTREMLY skill dependant and hard weapon to use,it had so slow rate of fire,slow flying projectiles,horribly curved arc,very limited ammo and weighted as much as 3x ER PPC + 1 ER LARGE LASER and produced shitload of heat.... I have to totaly disagree with you,who ever destroyed you with this weapon respect to him for being awesome player

Edited by neodym, 07 May 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[Long Draw]

Well, at least we're seeing at least two different views on these types of weapons. I'm personally hoping that it is included at launch because I do find it fun to provide a purely artillery support role every now and then.

[Victor Morson]

Shiinore, on 07 May 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It'll depend. Long Toms (along with PPC/Gauss boats with jumpjets) ruined MW4 online for me.

Did an extremely niche, hard to use and typically ineffective weapon really ruin MW4 for you?

JadeTimberwolf, on 07 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Long Toms are NOT mountable on Mechs, they would take up way too many crit spaced, and please don't quote MW4 here because the makers of that were complete idiots regarding what artillery a Mech can mount. Arrow VI yes but takes up so many crits (15 with 12 max in the side torsos) it pours into a second location. Long Toms take up 30 crits which no ruleset ever allows a single weapon to expand beyond 2 locations and the Long Tom would require 3-4, up to 10 in 1 arm, 12 in the side, up to 7 in the center (compact Gyro & Engine) and the last 1 in the other side, or 12 in each side and 6 in center. BTW I just takes 1 critical hit to disable the entire weapon. /rant

While that is possibly true, there are rules for mounting a Thumper on a 'mech. So far the only "canon" variant to mount one that I know of.

neodym, on 07 May 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

why? it ruined game for you?? that was extremly EXTREMLY skill dependant and hard weapon to use,it had so slow rate of fire,slow flying projectiles,horribly curved arc,very limited ammo and weighted as much as 3x ER PPC + 1 ER LARGE LASER and produced shitload of heat.... I have to totaly disagree with you,who ever destroyed you with this weapon respect to him for being awesome player

The only thing we ever did with Longtoms in MW4 was mount one on a Chimera if we were going to an infamous camping map, then use it to shell the enemy and soften them up before the attack. We had a total of like two good gunners with it in the entire unit, too, or at least enough to justify it.

Really the Longtom was pretty much limited "a thing to do with a terrible Chimera" and didn't have a lot more going for it. (EDIT: I'm talking the MW4 Chimera, not the Mercs Chimera, if anyone wants to say the Chimera could be an awesome glass canon. In vanilla, it was just horrendous.)

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 May 2012 - 12:53 PM.