29 replies to this topic

[Vulpesveritas]

So, latest in the rumorboat running around the web, LGA 1150 may be the end of LGA sockets with Intel, moving onto BGA non-removable CPUs/SoCs on motherboards. Not great news for the enthusiast side of things, though it does speak for better sales for Intel, given every motherboard manufactured using Intel CPUs will be a sale for Intel, and with that will come a price hike for performance no doubt.

Also will mean you probably won't be able to team up an i7 with that $100 motherboard.
One of many online articles discussing the supposed leak from Japan;
http://www.tweaktown..._cpu/index.html

[HeroicTofu]

Hmm. This is...interesting to say the least. I don't see it as a totally terrible thing in my case... Typically over the years, by the time it's come for me to upgrade my CPU, I need a new motherboard anyway due to new standards. But I can imagine that if you like to overclock the heck out of your CPU, if you accidentally fry it, you're not just out a CPU, you're out a CPU and MoBo.

[Sen]

I saw this, did some googling. . the general consensus I came away with is that the article was badly translated. Technically, no Intel CPUs currently COME with pins [they're in the socket on the motherboard]

http://semiaccurate....pcs-go-with-it/

And I stand somewhat corrected, quoted from the above link:

"Updated 11/26/12@3:25PM: One point to add, two OEM’s have confirmed to SemiAccurate that they have now been briefed that Broadwell is BGA only. This was done weeks after we first told them about the problem."

http://news.cnet.com...-reports-claim/

"[color=#000000]If indeed this is what Intel is planning. A [/color]report[color=#000000]at chip site Semiaccurate claims this will happen when Intel's Broadwell chip -- designed expressly for mobile -- rolls around in 2014 but qualifies this by saying that it "suspects that this decision has not been made" yet. And then goes on to say that Intel will "bring back" the socket with a chip design after Broadwell called Skylake."[/color]




[color=#000000]I can't see them going through with this. . . you'd have all the board manufacturers filing anti-trust suits, etc. . but we shall see, I guess[/color]

[color=#000000]I'm glad I bought SKT2011, if everything goes arm and Atom, I should be the most powerful rig on the planet for the next 15 years [/color]

i wish I knew why the forums kept decorating all my posts with these color flags ><

Edited by Sen, 27 November 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Sen, on 27 November 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

i wish I knew why the forums kept decorating all my posts with these color flags ><

Next time you paste, select paste as plain text. It's been like that since the forums have been here. The website doesn't utilize the color BBC tags, so since it's coded black on other websites, the tags are going to show up.


Anyhow, server parts will still probably be socketed, so they should still be available I would think, at least to enthusiasts who can afford them

[Staplebeater]

On one hand i have built my last two computers and loved figuring out MB and CPU combo to use and loved having the option of going with a different board with the CPU i wanted. On the other hand i have never upgraded a CPU once i bought the board. I always just got another MB, CPU and set of RAM and and put my old parts around it till they got upgraded

[Sir Roland MXIII]

I just read this tonight, myself, on SemiAccurate. It should be noted Intel may not be alone in shooting it's enthusiast CPU line dead - AMD's rumored to be stopping with Piledriver rather than going to Steamroller and beyond.

Link here - http://semiaccurate....-and-excavator/

If either or both of these come out true, we enthusiasts are likely going to be up certain creeks without certain implements.

Eff me.

[Vulpesveritas]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 28 November 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

I just read this tonight, myself, on SemiAccurate. It should be noted Intel may not be alone in shooting it's enthusiast CPU line dead - AMD's rumored to be stopping with Piledriver rather than going to Steamroller and beyond.

Link here - http://semiaccurate....-and-excavator/

If either or both of these come out true, we enthusiasts are likely going to be up certain creeks without certain implements.

Eff me.

By what I heard from the same link Sen posted, that a couple of OEMs confirmed the bit on Broadwell, whereas AMD is denying that they're abandoning the desktop space.
And those on intel should still be able be able to overclock with Broadwell... though they'll likely be limited to a small selection of high-end overclocking oriented motherboards with an additional price premium. Not to mention BGA will likely raise up costs more due to the higher costs for the motherboard manufacturers.

[Barbaric Soul]

I seriously doubt AMD will stop with Piledriver if Intel goes BGA. I'm sure they'll realise just how many customers they'll pick up if they continue with using sockets. I know my next build will be AMD based if Intel goes BGA, even if Intel's BGA cpu out performs AMD's socket cpu's. When I was using socket 775, I used two different board(EVGA 750FTW and Gigabyte EP45 UD3P), and three different CPU's(E8400, Xeon 3220, and Q9650). Oh, and I had all three CPU's before I replaced my first 775 motherboard. Us enthusists would flock to AMD if Intel goes BGA.

Edited by Barbaric Soul, 28 November 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Barbaric Soul, on 28 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

I seriously doubt AMD will stop with Piledriver if Intel goes BGA. I'm sure they'll realise just how many customers they'll pick up if they continue with using sockets. I know my next build will be AMD based if Intel goes BGA, even if Intel's BGA cpu out performs AMD's socket cpu's. When I was using socket 775, I used two different board(EVGA 750FTW and Gigabyte EP45 UD3P), and three different CPU's(E8400, Xeon 3220, and Q9650). Oh, and I had all three CPU's before I replaced my first 775 motherboard. Us enthusists would flock to AMD if Intel goes BGA.

Maybe it's Intel's plan to keep AMD somewhat alive to keep from getting split up? -/conspiracy theory-

[Apoc1138]

I think it's a poor translation, I think they mean to say that Broadwell will be available in BGA, not that it will ONLY be available in BGA, even if it means that the BGA type will be cheaper and soldered to a cheap motherboard so will be "mainstream" meaning office PC's and non-gaming home PC's and "enthusiast" chips will still be available in a replaceable format and still available for under $250

[Sen]

I can't lay my hands on them at the immediate moment, but I've seen a few articles that suggest Apoc is right. It could be that Broadwell is a "mobile only" and that the next desktop replacement after Haswell will be Skylake, or that Broadwell will have two distinct and different product lines. Given current lead Intel has in power over most of the CONSUMER PC industry [not to mention the performance lead in general over AMD --if price were not an issue--] it would make sense for them to sit back and ride on existing architecture for awhile anyway.

Of course the other possibility is that, in the intervening time optical processing could become cost efficient and feasible. . . in which case the whole question of performance and power consumption could become irrelevant FAIRLY quickly.

or quantum computing? [hey, a guy can dream, can't he?]

Edited by Sen, 28 November 2012 - 05:36 AM.

[Dr Killinger]

I don't mind. I've never replaced a CPU independent of a motherboard- I buy a great PC and keep it for ~5 years, so even if I wanted to, I can't.

That said, what if something on the motherboard goes? Can't just replace that and keep your fancy processor anymore :'(

[Flapdrol]

Ah who cares, the only intel socket that got a significant upgrade cpu was 1366, and those 6 core cpu's were insanely expensive.

socket 775 had some upgrades but made a mess with chipsets, 975 chipset couldn't use Q6600 and 965 couldn't use Q9550.

[Catamount]

Intel may not be one for upgrade paths, but I want to be able to pair the chip I want with the motherboard I want. I want to be able to replace bad mobos without having to buy a new CPU. I don't want Intel to suddenly have leverage over the motherboard market.

Knowing Intel, what'll probably happen is they'll start not only marrying high end chips to high end mobos, but marrying mobo features to those chips, so that enthusiasts can't build decent systems with lower end chips. Imagine if they suddenly stipulated that, say, Crossfire and SLI boards couldn't host their sub-$250 chips. I just don't like where that kind of leverage takes us.

Oh well, AMD here I come.

[Vulpesveritas]

and for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's the original page; http://pc.watch.impr...122_574440.html

You may need a translator

[Sen]

Awesome dig Vulp!

Reading it via google translate was a PITA, but a lot of what it said made sense. . . as does the solder-to-mobo component: If can help reduce thermal footprint and power consumption in devices like tablets, notebooks, and all-in-one's. There will be no LGA socket variant. Whether this will trend over to Skylake is unknown.

[Vulpesveritas]

Sen, on 28 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Awesome dig Vulp!

Reading it via google translate was a PITA, but a lot of what it said made sense. . . as does the solder-to-mobo component: If can help reduce thermal footprint and power consumption in devices like tablets, notebooks, and all-in-one's. There will be no LGA socket variant. Whether this will trend over to Skylake is unknown.

How much do you want to bet Intel wants to force DIYers to go Broadwell-E or something of the like for LGA and remove unlocked CPUs from the mainstream socket? Given the majority of buyers of the lower end chips are the mainstream buyers (who are the ones who care about power consumption... or at least the OEMs do so they can put even cheaper PSUs in computers than they already do), leaving less than 5% of the market to enthusiasts anyhow and many are in that group of people who can afford it. Anyone who doesn't like it can go AMD?.<-- most logical explanation I can think of.

[Sen]

Given the standard performance needs of general mainstream computing there's really no rush for more power at this time, though. With the trends gravitating towards low power casual computing [and casual gaming] Moore's law just isn't relevant anymore. If AMD and intel want to battle it out for the nearly empty wallet of today's global consumer, so be it. Honestly, what that REALLY translates out to is: "My build will remain relevant longer"

Sadly, this is probably just what they want, as pennies from the masses far outweigh the pounds from the few. As enthusiasts we are a determined breed, but we are surely an endangered one. Much like the big block engine, as software developers focus on more ways to trim every last ounce of performance from increasingly efficient low power technology, our beloved high power high performance rigs will become just as antiquated. Beautiful. . . .capable. . . but antiquated.

In the end, maybe that's not such a bad thing. . when technology finally reaches the point where I have the power of my current desktop in a form factor smaller than my GSIII, with my rev 10 Google glasses projecting a virtual augmentation field around me in realtime. . able to project Crysis VII (or MwO version 3. . I'm not picky) at a resolution comparable only to the concept of "The Matrix".

My only regret is that I love actually PHYSICALLY WORKING with the technology itself. . running wires, gauging airflow, ultimately feeling that the silicon was only half the battle. . that my machine runs flawlessly because of MY part in it's assembly. THAT is the part I'd ultimately miss: The death of the create part of computers. . moving hardware/software firmly into the realm of "consume only"

Edited by Sen, 28 November 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Viper69]

Its kinda odd though because when building a new system I usually dont use the high end CPU just one step down, but I do splurge on a robust motherboard.

[Slab Squathrust]

I heard about this a few days ago, and just figured this could be the boost that AMD needs (unless they of course follow suit). I typically use intel processors but have no loyalty to the brand. If AMD is right about the potential demand for ARM based server chips, and they could steal the enthusiast market from intel, it could be fantastic for the company. Having two strong players in the sector can only be good for the consumer. I have been considering picking up so shares of AMD with their recent pull back as a speculative play, and news like this only makes me more interested.