63 replies to this topic

[Mason Grimm]

woodstock, on 08 May 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

okay .... so I watch the vid and there were zero physical changes to how the mech looked.
I
hope this is a PRE-BETA thing because this directly contradicts what they said to helmers question.

I believe I covered this in my post up above.

The game is still being worked on; aesthetics like that are "polish" and not "core". Have patience grasshopper!

[Chuckie]

Notice that there were changes to the Catapault. I think it will depend.. in the case of ForumKiller it went from an AC to an AC and a Laser to a Laser.. so that maybe why not drastic changes.

What I am curious about is can I open up critical spaces by removing hand actuators like in TT.

[Woodstock]

Just watch the light mech breakdown (http://uk.ign.com/vi...loper-breakdown) ...and we see the energy weapon catapult. And it clearly looks different. So clearly the different variants have different visual appearances.

So thats something. But I really hope the customisation will also be represented.

Chuckie, on 08 May 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

Notice that there were changes to the Catapault. I think it will depend.. in the case of ForumKiller it went from an AC to an AC and a Laser to a Laser.. so that maybe why not drastic changes.

What I am curious about is can I open up critical spaces by removing hand actuators like in TT.

That will always be the case ... laser for laser ... the question here is when you add additional weapons. so with the hunchback they add a light laser to each arm. Neither of these light lasers is represented.

Different variants do seem to have radically different appearances though.

[Listless Nomad]

I would ask for people's opinions on the catapult -k2 variant we saw pictures of. There were definitely machine guns added to the model in that variant. Perhaps for right now only canon variants will have differing models and we'll have to go with that.

Perhaps the devs could build all weapon barrels into the model for different hard points, and then just mask them until a weapon is put into that slot?

[Jack Gallows]

My 2 cents.

First, if you watch the videos, it clearly shows the game is still in it's Alpha/Beta stage at least for what they let the public see. Missing effects are abound, trees don't knock over, no explosion or persistent 'mech husks when they die (Catapult just does a flip onto it's head then despawns,) so there's still a chance you'll see some modifications to the visual aspect of your 'machine down the line when adding more lasers/etc.

Even if there isn't, I think it's fine. You might see a barrel change on something like making the Autocanon on a Hunchback a Gauss, but I'd not see 5 medium laser barrels popping up if it originally only had 1 or 2 in the spot you added them to. As said before, that's a LOT of work and I'd REALLY like them to be working on other things. I don't give a damn if I've got two medium lasers in my arm and it only shows one on it.

The biggest change you will see is from variant to variant. A Swayback or a Catapult with the PPCs, as shown in the video, look very different from stock. That's honestly all I want to see change.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 May 2012 - 04:20 AM.

[Woodstock]

Jack Gallows, on 08 May 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

My 2 cents.

First, if you watch the videos, it clearly shows the game is still in it's Alpha/Beta stage at least for what they let the public see. Missing effects are abound, trees don't knock over, no explosion or persistent 'mech husks when they die (Catapult just does a flip onto it's head then despawns,) so there's still a chance you'll see some modifications to the visual aspect of your 'machine down the line when adding more lasers/etc.

Even if there isn't, I think it's fine. You might see a barrel change on something like making the Autocanon on a Hunchback a Gauss, but I'd not see 5 medium laser barrels popping up if it originally only had 1 or 2 in the spot you added them to. As said before, that's a LOT of work and I'd REALLY like them to be working on other things. I don't give a damn if I've got two medium lasers in my arm and it only shows one on it.

The biggest change you will see is from variant to variant. A Swayback or a Catapult with the PPCs, as shown in the video, look very different from stock. That's honestly all I want to see change.

I agree ... now I have seen that the variants are radically different I'm somewhat appeased. But I would appreciate if one of the devs would say if this is on their wish list to have OUR customisations physically represented.

[rollermint]

Although I'm a bit disappointed, at the same time I don't really expect them to put this in anytime soon. If at all, even.

Just imagine the amount of work involved trying to make the mechs visually accomodate the impossible number of designs and customisations the players might come up with. Its quite literally...impossible. What if a player wants to build a senseless Hunchback variant where he takes out all weapons, strips down as much armor as he can to save space and in place of the AC20 portion, he puts in 10 machine guns? Do we really expect the devs to waste time, money and resources just to visually accomodate the crazy stuffs that players will pull off in-game(and they will!)?
And we are now only playing with a few Battlemechs, imagine when they need to start pumping out Omnimechs?

It'll be great to be pleasantly surprised but its not hard to figure out that we are quite really expecting a bit too much from PGI. It doesn't bring much to the gameplay table and I rather PGI spend more resources and time tweaking more important gameplay aspects of the game. At the most, I'm only expecting some minor differences but I feel that I'm setting myself up for unnecessary heartache if I expect everything to be accurately represented.

[JazzySteel]

rollermint, on 08 May 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Although I'm a bit disappointed, at the same time I don't really expect them to put this in anytime soon. If at all, even.

Just imagine the amount of work involved trying to make the mechs visually accomodate the impossible number of designs and customisations the players might come up with. Its quite literally...impossible. What if a player wants to build a senseless Hunchback variant where he takes out all weapons, strips down as much armor as he can to save space and in place of the AC20 portion, he puts in 10 machine guns? Do we really expect the devs to waste time, money and resources just to visually accomodate the crazy stuffs that players will pull off in-game(and they will!)?
And we are now only playing with a few Battlemechs, imagine when they need to start pumping out Omnimechs?

It'll be great to be pleasantly surprised but its not hard to figure out that we are quite really expecting a bit too much from PGI. It doesn't bring much to the gameplay table and I rather PGI spend more resources and time tweaking more important gameplay aspects of the game. At the most, I'm only expecting some minor differences but I feel that I'm setting myself up for unnecessary heartache if I expect everything to be accurately represented.

Not quite so bad as you think. The nature of Critslots and Weapon Hardpoints cuts down on most of those crazy variants. For example you can only place two machineguns in that right torso because it only has two Hardpoints, regardless of weight or critslots.

[neodym]

I dont believe mechlab weapon would change look in any way except camo..... there will be different variants and thats it,this game dont have very big budget,not saying its cheap I love it but if you for example put two SRM6 to catapult where was previously LRM15 I dont believe its gonna have 12 holes,it will still look like 15 holes same if you put LRM 20 here

[MaddMaxx]

woodstock, on 08 May 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

I agree ... now I have seen that the variants are radically different I'm somewhat appeased. But I would appreciate if one of the devs would say if this is on their wish list to have OUR customisations physically represented.

So the Dev Blog quote was not sufficient? They stated YES, but with a caveat. Beyond that we are STILL in a wait and see state. Badgering them will not speed up the process.

P.S. just saying.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 08 May 2012 - 05:48 AM.

[Fameth Sathronaveth]

rollermint, on 08 May 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Although I'm a bit disappointed, at the same time I don't really expect them to put this in anytime soon. If at all, even.

Just imagine the amount of work involved trying to make the mechs visually accomodate the impossible number of designs and customisations the players might come up with. Its quite literally...impossible. What if a player wants to build a senseless Hunchback variant where he takes out all weapons, strips down as much armor as he can to save space and in place of the AC20 portion, he puts in 10 machine guns? Do we really expect the devs to waste time, money and resources just to visually accomodate the crazy stuffs that players will pull off in-game(and they will!)?
And we are now only playing with a few Battlemechs, imagine when they need to start pumping out Omnimechs?

It'll be great to be pleasantly surprised but its not hard to figure out that we are quite really expecting a bit too much from PGI. It doesn't bring much to the gameplay table and I rather PGI spend more resources and time tweaking more important gameplay aspects of the game. At the most, I'm only expecting some minor differences but I feel that I'm setting myself up for unnecessary heartache if I expect everything to be accurately represented.

What is good about omnimechs though is this: they use weapon pods. This means that the devs have to design each weapon pod, and then they are done - these weapon pods will be much easier to create and asthetically attach than the more unique and stylized weapons the battlemechs will have. [each to his own].

[Siilk]

<offtopic>
Just to clear some things up with MWLL. It doesn't have mechlab yet but it's variants are not custom-built in 3d editor to look different, they are actually made pretty much in the same way they would be when the mechlab would be available, just with dev tools instead of full-fledged front-end GUI. And yes, all the build rules and limitations apply to any and all of current variants. You must keep in mind, that MWLL does not use CBT build ruleset but rather it's own one whick deviates from CBT ruleset in some ways. Same goes for individual mech stats. So some variants could seem to be impossible, when judged by CBT rules, yet all of them are consistent and legal by MWLL build rules.
</offtopic>
As for OP, I am too a bit bugged by the lack of any visible transformation of Hunchie in question and I really hope that it's just the matter of MWO still being in alpha and that issue would be resolved in the future.

[EDMW CSN]

I rather they get core things down to pat like Netcode, BV / Tonnage balancing, mech quirks (all mechs should handle differently somewhat), weapon balance, meta gaming for territorial control etc Before heading down to the shinies.

[Spooky]

pursang, on 08 May 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Yeah, I think people have been a little spoiled by MW:LL. What people don't seem to realize, is that making it so that the 'Mech physically changes every time you change some small detail on it (considering the amount of weapons and 'Mechs involved) is a lot of work. MW:LL managed to pull it off because they don't have a MechLab, so they can just create a few variants that look different from each other.

That's not how it works in MW:LL. The Chassis and Weapons (and Weapon Boxes) are independent entities. There is always only one model which simply has different weapons on it, based on the configuration of the variant.

Edited by Spooky, 08 May 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Stormeris]

I personally hope for only slightly different weapons, nothing radical:
Maybe small laser would have slightly narrower barrel and a smaller lense, than mediums, and medium lasers smaller than large ones.
Maybe LRM 10 would differenciate from LRM 15, or 20 whatever, by the amount of holes for rockets or something
AC2/5/10/20 would be different maybe only barrel size or something,
Only gauss rifles and PPCs would drastically change the look or something

[Ulric Kell]

I'm not too concerned about it. At the end of the day I want a mech that looks pleasing and works as expected. Graphically if you can't place every weapon imaginable I'm okay with that but as stated previously some mechs whose bodies are already predefined won't change much between types of weapons equipped.

[Wyzak]

Because of the hardpoint system, there is some self-regulation to make sure missiles never come out of a laser barrel on a static mech model. If a hardpoint is big enough to accommodate a gauss rifle, the circumference of the barrel should reflect that; If you stack 8 machine guns in that hardpoint, I'm not sure you should have an expectation of seeing 8 tiny MG barrels stick out of that mega barrel. As for hardpoints that can fire both lasers and ballistics I don't really mind if they look identical. In many previous iterations of battletech/mechwarrior autocannons and medium lasers looked identical.

[Naduk]

while the visuals are most certainly different for major weapon changes and variants
minor changes will not be quite so noticeable

however , what i have not seen mentioned yet is that this is a free to play game
so it will not matter if this feature is in the game during the beta or during launch
its obvious the developers have these kind of things in mind, so they have the core essentials working now (cpult way different to a kpult)

the F2P development model allows the devs to add these kind of features in the game later, when they get a moment to breath and get it done. they wont have to feel like they are rushing the feature, we will just one day log in to play , download an update before hand and receive new shiny objects each time

have a look at league of legends, their last major patch they added in a live spectator mode, direct from the games main menu
you can even watch the games your mates are playing, its really cool
but 9 months ago the players could only fantasize about such a feature

[Steel Talon]

Cant see images OP post, but many weapon models are probably not done yet, so they use some placeholder.

[Bryan Ekman]

Here's your official answer. At launch, there will be limited visual changes to the Mechs for many of the stated reasons in this thread. We do have a visual solution in place for the hardpoints, but it's going to be a race to the finish, and it may slip into open beta. Like MWLL we each variant has a custom look.